luca wrote:Others have certainly observed they feel other machines are better and I think I read that one of the things that Decent are working on is updating the software to enable higher flow rates, which some speculated might be a way to get higher body. So if it's something that's important to a prospective buyer, they should certainly read the reviews with this in mind.

It's nice that they're adding it, but the entire concept is based around a flawed assumption that rotary pump machines and certain levers (every criticism of the DE for body applies equally to every single vibe or gear pump, by the way, so if you like the body on those you won't miss anything, period) compress the puck immediately with pressure leading to higher body. High enough pressure changing the puck is absolutely a real thing. But no machine that has ever been made (unless there's some abandoned prototype in some manufacturer's lab) instantly reaches full pressure. I can't imagine a machine that did would be any good.

My primary hypothesis is that it's 100% in the heads of the user and nowhere else. And not in a bad way, I've been shut up hard on some water related claims after some blind cupping myself. "Very noticeable" things aren't necessarily real at all, our heads are weird. But possibly also a mixed up variable like the Decent baskets not letting as much sediment through, in which case obtaining some other baskets could be plenty. Or perhaps related to temperature profile, which could be worked out with the advanced screen. But what I'm 100% sure it's not is magic or something not even the supposed better body machines can actually do in reality either. So IF (and that's a huge if) it's not just a perception issue, you can mimic it once you find out how.

Split follow-on discussion to Is body of espresso on the DE1 thinner?

I'm not sure whether it was mentioned, but two videos which demonstrate milk steaming power (or lack thereof). The updated pro 700 (and ECM Synchronika) looks like it has a lot more steam power than the DE.

The DE steam still has a huge advantage on account of being linear. For every second, it will heat 4.5ml to 140°f. You can use that as well at 190ml or 95ml or 380ml.

So, 27 seconds to steam 120 mL of milk. I would not consider this a huge advantage. I would consider it a huge disadvantage, but that is just my opinion.

You set your timer based on weight (there's even a skin with a feature to use the weight on milk on a connected Skale to set steam time) and it heats it to exactly 140°f, and does all the heating and aeration while introducing very minimal water. What does it matter what the time needed is?

CwD wrote:What does it matter what the time needed is?

It matters (to me). I really like my workflow of being able to steam milk in a few seconds while pulling a shot, keeping my hands on the milk pitcher the entire time. I don't want to let the milk steam for a "good minute", hands free. That is what the DE video shows. It's not for me.

Anyway, I feel it is a limitation, whereas you are really excited about this feature. I respect your opinion on this matter. I think we should leave it at that.

Coming from a Breville, the DE is so much quicker but I try not to steam more than one drinks worth at a time, just doesn't inspire confidence to get consistent quality microfoam; and seems to take forever. Of course, it's no comparison to a machine with a dedicated steam boiler though.