Profitec Pro 600 vs new Drive and Grinder decisions?

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
BurdMan
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#1: Post by BurdMan »

I'm torn between the affordability and dependability of the Pro 600 and the options/features of the new Profitec Drive. I'll never plumb it so that's not an issue. I am just trying to justify the $1000 difference in the two. From all the new features they put on the Drive it seems to be a, last machine you'll buy. But am I really missing anything I "need" on the 600? The larger steam boiler really isn't needed since it's just me and maybe 2-3 more from time to time and I'm slow so I don't see myself ever running out of steam on the 600. They both steam at 2 bar so I'll get the same quality of steam. They are both made by Profitec so built like a tank and clean wires and such inside. Vibe pump vs rotary, the vibe on the 600 is on a bouncy thingy (don't know the technical name lol) to keep it quiet. Plus if it ever stops it's so much cheaper than a rotary pump.

Did I just sell myself on the 600 over the Drive? I still am undecided. I could use more pros/cons of each. I have both in my cart just need to make up my mind!

Also I should add if I go with the 600 I can add a Ceado E37SD Single Dose Grinder to replace my trusty Mazzer Mini modded doserless

Thanks

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Jeff
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#2: Post by Jeff »

I'm looking at them and wondering a lot of the same. As I enjoy light-roast espresso and believe that traditional espresso can also benefit from extraction profiling, I'd push the dealer to give me a flow kit "free" with the 600. (They typically can't go below MAP for the machines themselves.)

I think your idea that a new grinder with the 600 vs. just the Drive is a good one. Personally, I'd pick a different grinder, but your preferences on the counter and in the cup are likely not the same as mine.

PIXIllate
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#3: Post by PIXIllate »

The Drive is the replacement for the PRO700. Other than the ability to plumb in and the rotary pump they are functionally the same and will be the same in the cup.

The noise difference between the two pumps is real but no one really uses the extra flow rate the rotary can provide so that's not a functional difference.

Jeff is correct that the flow control would be far more benifical in the cup than anything else.

I constantly struggle with reasons to "upgrade" from my 600. The only things that are vaguely interesting are a Streitman or a Decent, and the Decent would need to be a next gen machine.

BurdMan (original poster)
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#4: Post by BurdMan (original poster) »

Jeff, WLL is throwing in the flow kit for free. If you don't mind what grinder would you go with? I'd prefer a single dosing grinder. I made my Mazzer mini into a doserless model with bellows. It's fine but I figured something with bigger than the 58mm burrs would be better and more consistent.

ETA: I decided on the 600 with the free flow kit now I need a grinder upgrade to complete it

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Jeff
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#5: Post by Jeff »

I own and like the Option-O P64 and have used several burr sets in it. I have used a Zerno and it felt like it would be a good grinder as well. One of those two would be my top suggestions before getting into something in the over-$2,000 range. The 64 mm burrs also have the advantage of being relatively affordable (under $200 new) and there being a seemingly active used market for them. This means you could try out different burrs in the future at about 1/2 the cost of 83 mm burrs.

I really disliked using a DF64 first-generation. I hear the new generation may be a bit better. If your budget permits a P64 or Zerno, I don't know that you'd find many people arguing for a DF-whatever.

I have seen videos that suggest that the DF83V was worth looking at. The 83 mm burrs aren't a lot better than their 64 mm counterparts, but the grinder itself looks a lot better thought-out than the DF64 series. I haven't seen or touched a DF64V, so that is a lot of guessing. Factually it looks like $800 and 83 mm SSP burrs are around $350, so you're getting into the Zerno or used P64 range.

If you can snag a used P100 from someone that upgraded to a P01 or whatever, that would be a great option. 98 mm burrs aren't cheap (around $550 new), but there are "trade" options that come up from time to time when people realize that they are on the wrong end of the traditional <=> clarity spectrum for their tastes.

BurdMan (original poster)
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#6: Post by BurdMan (original poster) »

Thanks for the info. Did a bunch of videos on the latest model of the DF64V and everything I've watched has been positive. On their site you can get the SSP burrs and everything for $750, 1/2 of the P64. My next question is the P64 worth double? If it is I have no problems with it. I'd rather spend my money on something I buy once. The one thing that worries me is a few reviews have said they ran into stalling from time to time on the DF64V on light roasts.

Will I see much of a taste difference from either of these compared to my mazzer mini?

Thanks

ETA well one of the DF64V videos said the Option O P64 is his favorite grinder of all time! I added my info to Prima Coffee to be notified when its back in stock. :) I'm thinking it will be an end game grinder

BurdMan (original poster)
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#7: Post by BurdMan (original poster) »

Now the reviews of the DF64 Gen 2 are much different. Since it uses an AC motor not a DC motor like the DF64V it's not prone to the jamming. It looks like much more of contender now. Still have my name on the list from Prima for the P64 :)

BurdMan (original poster)
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#8: Post by BurdMan (original poster) »

I'm liking what I'm seeing about the gen 2 on the df64 and df83. There's roughly a $325 difference between the two in price with the upgraded burrs in them.

2 things, are the upgraded burrs worth it and do I need the 83 over the 64?

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Jeff
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#9: Post by Jeff »

"Worth it" is always a value judgement. I ground coffee using a Krups whirlybird many years ago. It made coffee. For the day, it made great coffee. Someone who is used to drinking pre-ground Brim and Sanka might wonder why someone would even bother.

I think there is a significant difference between the best of the 80 and 98 mm burrs and the best of the 64 mm burrs. I don't think there is a big difference between the best of the 64 mm burrs and the best of the 83 mm burrs at this point in time. The 83 mm burrs seemingly haven't evolved as much as the other three sizes. The 83 mm burrs are roughly twice the cost of 64 mm burrs to get a second set (or upgrade from stock). In early 2024, I'd go with an 83 mm grinder over 64 mm one only if the 83 mm grinder itself was significantly better built or easy to use.

Burrs may improve with time. Hansung is known to silently "improve" SSP burrs without notice. Whether you think the changes are an improvement is often a subject of debate. Option-O has become a burr supplier worth following with their Mizen series. I own their Mini Moonshine, 64 Mizen (Moonshine), and have used the 98 Mizens for several weeks across several coffees. All impress me as performing well against their design targets.

I would immediately replace the 64 mm "stock" burrs on a DF-series grinder. I don't have an opinion on the 83 mm stock burrs.

BurdMan (original poster)
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#10: Post by BurdMan (original poster) »

Well Jeff that helps more than you know. I can get the second gen DF64 with the upgraded SSP burrs for less than the stock burrs on the 83. After watching hours of reviews on both they seem to have evolved the same into gen 2 with the plasma generator and anti clumping. No more plastic dosing cup now it's metal and the case seems to be high quality. I do like the looks of it in white and for under $700 I can get it all tricked out. I think I'll go with the DF64 with the SSP High Uniformity Espresso Burrs they list. Should be interesting. It seems they fixed/upgraded so many things from gen 1 to gen 2 based on complaints/advice (maybe that's the same thing). Now it appears to be a much better built unit and for $700 with SSP burrs it's worth a shot.

On a side note I went and ordered the Pro 600 :)

Messed that up, changed burrs in cart to these: SSP Cast Lab Sweet 64mm Flat Burrs. Is one better than the other? I just see these more often. Which would you choose? And they are the V3 for espresso.