So I'm sure a lot of people are going to say DE1 but please stop and read before replying. I have a custom build where I've made a pretty consistent machine for about 600 bucks. (machine plus mods) I was expecting a couple years before I had enough cash to upgrade but my finances have done better than expected.

So... I have a latte for breakfast and an espresso for lunch. I make my wife lattes on the weekend but outside having people over which only happens occasionally. So with my usage I worry I might be overshooting but I value quality and want a consistent experience at least on the part of the machine.

With my technical knowledge and mods the sustainable choice says the 700 as I'm sure I'd do any maintenance, and any mods, myself over the years. The quick warmup and the nerd in me says DE1. I will say the videos on the DE1 make it sound a bit cheap when pulling a shot, and possibly a little weak comparatively with steaming.

Another snag is that I pretty exclusively use single origins that I roast myself from Sweet Marias. I used to just buy whatever was recommended for espresso a bit randomly, but I I'm starting to flag my favorites, wasn't a fan of their blends at all. Since I'm vary so much with my input it seems to muddy the question even further. Thoughts?

D_Prince wrote:So I'm sure a lot of people are going to say DE1 but please stop and read before replying. I have a custom build where I've made a pretty consistent machine for about 600 bucks. (machine plus mods) I was expecting a couple years before I had enough cash to upgrade but my finances have done better than expected.

So... I have a latte for breakfast and an espresso for lunch. I make my wife lattes on the weekend but outside having people over which only happens occasionally. So with my usage I worry I might be overshooting but I value quality and want a consistent experience at least on the part of the machine.

With my technical knowledge and mods the sustainable choice says the 700 as I'm sure I'd do any maintenance, and any mods, myself over the years. The quick warmup and the nerd in me says DE1. I will say the videos on the DE1 make it sound a bit cheap when pulling a shot, and possibly a little weak comparatively with steaming.

Another snag is that I pretty exclusively use single origins that I roast myself from Sweet Marias. I used to just buy whatever was recommended for espresso a bit randomly, but I I'm starting to flag my favorites, wasn't a fan of their blends at all. Since I'm vary so much with my input it seems to muddy the question even further. Thoughts?

I have owned several machines including the Pro 700 and currently have a DE1 plus 1.0 machine. I sold my Profitec 700 and replaced it with GS3MP. They are very different machines both with pros and cons.

I will honestly say that the Profitec 700 or the Synchronika are in my opinion at the top tier of build quality for prosumer level DB machines. For prosumer level machines I have owned a VBM DDB, the Izzo Duetto DB III, and a few Isomacs. Add in a few commercials Elektra T1, Cimbali DT1, a Synesso and a GS3 MP. Add in a mix of various levers as well...

Hands down, among the E61 machines at the prosumer level the Profitec was the best built almost equal to the commercial grade machines that I have used or owned.

The Decent is a machine for someone who wants to tinker with detailed profiles. The machine itself while built well, it still feels a bit like a prototype in my opinion. So from my perspective the main benefit for the DE is really the complete package that includes hardware, with the added software and firmware that are able be updated thus adding new features even to 1.0 version of machines today. Compare that to just about any of the the prosumer machines out there. You cannot easily update the firmware on many of them.

Additionally, they are still making major changes to the Decent machines at the hardware level as well. So while some of these can be retrofit to older machines, unfortunately some are not for cost reasons and i suspect that will be the case for the next two to three years as the company matures the platform.

The ability to create amazing coffee is possible on both of these machine but you have an almost unlimited level of customization for profile creation on the Decent that is simply not possible on anything else on the market.

So think about what do you want?

One of the best made, highly reliable prosumer level E61 machines like the Profitec 700? The internals are also laid out very well and easy to work on. Additionally, its a pretty mature platform with rotary pumps, stainless internals including the boilers etc.

Or

A platform that is capable of emulating just about any machine out there and can customize profiles ad-infinitum that will continue to evolve heavily over the next few years. If the sound of tinkering via software GUI with the creation or tweaking of profiles appeals to you then this might the platform to consider.

smite wrote:The Decent is a machine for someone who wants to tinker with detailed profiles. The machine itself while built well, it still feels a bit like a prototype in my opinion. So from my perspective the main benefit for the DE is really the complete package that includes hardware, with the added software and firmware that are able be updated thus adding new features even to 1.0 version of machines today. Compare that to just about any of the the prosumer machines out there. You cannot easily update the firmware on many of them.

It seems like the sweet spot with profiling is dialing in the minutia of the same beans or am I overthinking it? I don't want to buy the DE1 for a function I'll never utilize fully. That being said it intrigues me and I understand the premise but but I currently have no real-life context.

It's interesting to hear you talk about the feel of the DE1, people tend to shy away from any flaws on the Decent machines but all machines have them. I just want to look at it holistically and decide whats best.

What do you feel about the milk steaming? Since this seems to be 50% of my drinks, higher when counting other people, it seems like it should be a factor

What do you feel about the milk steaming? Since this seems to be 50% of my drinks, higher when counting other people, it seems like it should be a factor

There you go! This is important to me too, so I went with the Synchronika. If you need good steam get a machine with a 2-bar steam function and add a 3-hole or 4-hole tip in place of the usual 2-hole one.

D_Prince wrote:It seems like the sweet spot with profiling is dialing in the minutia of the same beans or am I overthinking it? I don't want to buy the DE1 for a function I'll never utilize fully. That being said it intrigues me and I understand the premise but but I currently have no real-life context.

It's interesting to hear you talk about the feel of the DE1, people tend to shy away from any flaws on the Decent machines but all machines have them. I just want to look at it holistically and decide whats best.

What do you feel about the milk steaming? Since this seems to be 50% of my drinks, higher when counting other people, it seems like it should be a factor

I try to be as factual and straight forward as possible while giving an opinion to support the community. I know there are many who communicate a sense of passion and excitement for the machine they have chosen and that can sometimes make it seem difficult to get a balanced opinion or a straight answer. For me after owning so many machines, I try to move past that and can hopefully convey a reasonable opinion without too many blinders of my own getting in the way.

In terms of your first question think about roasting. You can change so many aspects of a roast which all can have significant differences in the cup. The same with profiling on the Decent. So yes you can try to determine best profile for the same beans but don't limit your thinking just to that use case. Think about how, you as a roaster could change the roast profile for the same bean first as a light roast and then how you can pull that as straight espresso while leveraging a lever style profile on the Decent that gives you a nice bright ristretto with tons of flavor. Then with those same beans that you have roasted a bit darker you can also pull a traditional Italian style comfort shot for a milk drink. See same beans, different roast and different profiles.. Doing that on another machine is not quite as easy without practice. Of course you could also try different profiles for the same bean roasted at the same level ....

While steaming on the Decent works very well and is super dry compared to many other machines, it is definitely not the strongest steamer out there. By no means is it a slouch, but I personally would want a different machine if I were making a good deal of large volume steam drinks. If you are doing small volumes of milk you wouldn't run into any issues with it, but as I said the real draw for the Decent in my opinion is the ability to tinker and update software. This includes the ability to make v60 type coffee in addition to many variations of espresso profiles.

If you are looking for simplicity you can of course use the basic skin for the Decent tablet and then just swap profiles that come with the machine or of course use those that others develop and share. If you ask me, I personally don't feel that would be a good value for the spend for the Decent in that use case. Some people might feel differently of course.

The Pro 700 or Synchronika are both well built, mature machines capable of making great espresso and milk drinks reliably for many years and have almost unlimited steaming power. Additionally, they both offer the optional ability to profile so you can do some level of tinkering if you want to.

Good stuff so far. I do have a 700 but I'm not going to attempt to convince you one way or another. But I love my 700 and am going to buy a Decent too. Prob is I also want a lever, a L or 800, lol. But I think the decent is my next purchase.

Thanks Smite, that is helpful info!

One additional question though. It might be a little nebulous but I'll ask anyways. How is the Decent experience? I know the machine is capable. Is it just technical, or is it a pleasurable experience, or is it both?

Channel James Hoffmann if you have to.

I am glad its helpful. I have posted something similar in response to your question that I will try to dig up.

While the aesthetics of the Decent are simple and elegant, I feel that some of the strengths of the Decent are also a weakness. With its fully calculated automation, it fails to provide the warm tactile experience that allows me as the barista to feel the connection to the machine.

I have seen this represented as "becoming one with the machine"

For example, levers provide the extreme opposite experience of the Decent since you can truly feel the tactile experience of what it means to literally "pull a shot." You also get a similar experience with pulling a shot on a Slayer or the GS3 MP.

I can tell you from my experience that when I used the Pro 700 I absolutely enjoyed the experience of pulling shots, even though its not at the same level of experience of a manual lever or the other machines I mentioned. Still it was definitely more of a tactile experience as compared to using the Decent.

I will end with saying that the Decent, while fully capable of pulling great shots and doing things that no other machine can do, the experience of pushing a button on the tablet or controller to pull a shot is about as cold and an impersonal activity as using a K-Cup machine.

Best of luck with your decision, either way both machines will give you great coffee for years to come.

John