Just another subjective oppinion.

I know you said the BDB doesn't appeal to you, but hear me out on this.

You and your wife are experienced Baristas and will not appreciated nor want sub par equipment. You have a somewhat limited budget.
You want a home espresso station.

All True?

The Breville BDB has been time proven to be reliable if you do the proper, easy and cheap maintenance and use non scaling water. This is no different than any of the comparable(price or capability) machines. It also is the most versatile machine, OTB available for under $3K. This arguable, but true in my mind at least. It can easily and cheaply be modified for even more control. With no mods, it checks all your boxes. Programable pre infusion, flow control and world class(if not the most powerful) steam.

Paired with the Niche Zero(currently unobtanium), or the G-IOTA DF64(or some other nomenclature of the same grinder), you have a very capable, versatile and affordable kit.

croikee wrote:... Questions:
1) How would you prioritize between Pre-Infusion, Flow Control and Steam Power?
2) For those experienced with the Elizabeth, how is the steam power?

Thanks!
John

Myself, for light roasts, I'd take a BZ group over an E-61 or the 'ring' group found in the Lelit - but that's my personal taste preference. Someone else could prefer another group. Regardless, taste differences will be much less evident in milk.

However, as was recently highlighted in this video: James Hoffmann review of espresso machines under £1500 [VIDEO] machines in this price range benefit from being tuned to the espresso that you drink. I suspect that the default tuning for most machines is for Italian espresso roasts (dark). Pulling lighter roasts typically means lowering the brew pressure, raising the brew temperature, and reducing initial flow rate - via pre-infusion on the Lelit, (possibly reducing) gicleur size on the Bezzera, or a flow control add-on for an E-61. Of these three, flow control offers the most flexibility, so I would go with that - so an E-61.

Steam can be tricky to evaluate in home machines. For example, the length/type of the pipe inside the machine and the mass/mounting of the steam valve assembly impact the quality/'dryness' of the steam. Lower is better for both, which I guess is why the Bezzera was recommended. Boiler size and boiler pressure affect the quantity of steam/recovery time. Bigger is better, but a higher pressure increases quantity (good), but also increases recover time (not so good). In addition, higher pressure raises brewing temperature in an HX. HX service boilers typically run around 1.25bar. The Lelit's service boiler is relatively small at 0.6l, but with a higher pressure of 2bar; BZ group Bezzera HX's have (effectively) steam boilers about twice as large, as will typical E-61 HX service boilers.

All machines have compromises. For example, HX's can be frustrating, but I've had two and will soon have a third (none are E-61's). The more you spend, the less one has to think about compromises. Good luck!

So if I'm hearing right your recommendation would be a e61 with flow content correct? What about the Mara X with the flow control option?

I love the bezzera just seems it's limited, no pre infusion or flow control

My experience with far too many years on an E61 HX and then about a year on a machine with highly controlled and variable everything has led me to rank them, for myself, who now pulls almost exclusively medium-light and lighter roasts, variable preinfusion, extraction profiling, and steam as a distant third. Even the "weak" steamers I've worked with are sufficient for a couple of lattes.

I definitely like the flavor profile of a lever-like profile over the "9-bar flat" that most home, pump-driven machines produce. However, control over preinfusion lets me grind finer and get better balance out of the lighter roasts. If you primarily a medium-dark ("classic" espresso) drinker, I'd go with extraction profiling, if I had to choose. For light roasts, I wouldn't want to give up either of them, but would probably go with variable preinfusion, if I had to decide.

Have you considered a lever machine?

Elizabeth may not not have a Linea steam power, but what consumer machine does? It'll take slightly longer then you used too but it will makes good velvety latte art worthy microfoam. Heck even a cheap dedica with thermoblock and rancilio steam wand can do it.

TLDR: go with the Elizabeth and pair it with a flat burr grinder for your light roasts.

Maybe look into a Mazzer Super Jolly doser model second hand for around 300 dollar (or a newer one [FS] Not just another Mazzer Super Jolly *new price* without the TORR hopper) and buy a set of SSP burrs for it ([FS] SSP 64mm High-Uniformity Burrs). Then you can singledose and have a good grinder. That only sets you back around 500 dollar or 650 with both FS links which need less work and are ready to go. The grinder will be the most important part and this way you can save around 1000 dollar compared to a new grinder.

With that in mind you can spent a lot more on your espressomachine. Every E61 HX or DB can make good enough foam for latte art. Buying a second hand E61 will set you back around 1000-1400 dollars. So well within your budget. Or try and find a second hand Bezzera Strega which wll be very capable for all your needs.

After that invest in a good tamper, funnel, knockbox, tamping mat, good filterbaskets, naked portafilter, Peak waterfilters and jug etc. You need a couple of 100 dollars for that too so keep that in mind. This will give you a nice setup to start with and you can always upgrade in the future.

Buy a grinder and an espresso machine and you can generally get a better discount.

See what they have on hand and what they can do for you with models, price and possible warranty. Chris Coffee is a quality dealer.

Great Savings on Used Equipment!

Seattle Coffee Gear has an open box sale that will stretch your money a lot farther.

I don't understand if your $1,900 is machine only or machine plus grinder. Big difference.

What I found was this:
In a heat exchange machine, you probably want a PID. That scratches the Appartamento.
Once you get to a PID HX, the DB HX machines are only a few hundred more, like the Profitec or the Bezzera Duo.

I know that your budget is what it is, but, for instance, Seattle Coffee Gear has an open box Rocket R58 for about $2,200 that's out of this world.

Budget was about $2500 total. On something like the rocket, What does all the extra cost actually get you? I realize it's a $3000 machine but it doesn't do pre-infusion or profiling correct? I'm not saying it's not worth it but I'm just curious what the extra expenses for?