Hi All,

Newly registered and first post here though I browsed and read several topics in the past.

Although I am with mixed feelings about posting myself one of these often silly buying choices threads there is no getting away from the fact that others' hands on experience is indispensable, especially with specialized espresso machines often bought online with no prior possibility for a trial.

I decided to buy a lever machine, and my usage will be 8 - 10 small (~ 20 ml) ristrettos daily, plus an occasional cappuccino.

I narrowed my choice to the Ponte Vecchio Lusso or Bezzera Strega (tank version); my primary objectives being, first, the quality in the cup, and second, temperature stability. Where I live (EU), and when the PV specialized tool is factored in, both machines come close in price with only about 35% difference. I had to rule out other machines either due to grossly exceeding my budget (Londinuum costing !two Stregas), or for being impractically large (several machines with huge 4,5 - 5L boilers).

Each machine, the Lusso and the Strega, has it's pros- and cons-, with most things, like build quality, favoring the Strega. However, there is one important difference between the two, the pressure profile during extraction, and I found little information taste-wise in the past threads. From what I understood the Lusso starts the pre-infusion at boiler pressure, i.e. 1 - 1,5 bar; then ramp it up to 6 - 7 bar, and from there gradually decline to zero. The Strega on the contrary starts the pre-infusion at about 9 bars, then ramp it up to about 11 bars, and from there the pressure declines (I am aware that this is only one of the modes with Strega).

These are serious differences during the extraction process, and must have noticeable impact in the cup. For any of you who have (or had) the Strega and could compare it to the PV Lusso or to any of the other spring-thermosyphon-tank fed levers (Londinium I and Quick Mill Achille), how would you describe the taste and aroma differences between the two?

First off. I haven't touched the PV lineup, so I can't give you any insight there or comparison.

If you are going to pull 8-10 single shots a day then I would think the Strega is the easier machine to work on. Commercial sized group, easy cleaning, shelf stable, commercial basket and tamper compatible!

Pre-infusion pressures on the PV are determined by the pressure of your boiler, and it's quick. The Lusso feeds from a dipping tube, and that is the sole pressure to the group until the spring is released. Spring pressure depends on the spring/springs in the group, and I've read that 6-7 BAR is about the right pressure there.

Pre-infusion on the Strega is fed by the vibe pump, and therefore it's a bit slow. As the pump builds up to enough pressure that it quiets down a bit you near 7 BAR and will quickly ramp up to 11 BAR. Once the spring lever is in play on a full pressure group it keeps 9 BAR for a while before tapering to 6-7 BAR toward the end. If the group isn't fully pressurized to begin with it seems to be a lower pressure pull of about 8-7 BAR peak pressure. (I think it was Another Jim that gave us these numbers, but I could be wrong.)

spressomon wrote:I don't own either but do own and have been using my PV Export daily for the past several months while my L1 patiently waits in storage until the next house

I can get very, very good espresso out of my Export which uses the same group as the Lusso; in some ways rivaling or exceeding the best I can get out of my L1. My biggest gripe is the frequent (relative to my L1) lubing of the piston seals required to keep it sealing tight and pulling buttery smooth (both effect the quality of the shots). PV won't sell their factory piston tool set/kit other than to commercial dealers and has forced a couple of us to fab our own tool kit...a bit more than a minor irritation.

Why fabricate own kit when you can buy the factory tool from a dealer?! It cost about 90 euros (~ 110 USD) http://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com/pontevecchio.html Check from the mid page down under the section Ricambi Pontevecchio

spressomon wrote:The build quality of the Export is the worst of all the espresso machines I've owned and used.

This is the only issue that held me from ordering PV.... with no dealer/service nearby I will be on my own shall I encounter a problem. I am a sucker for good espresso, but already too busy to undertake and coffee machine repairs.

spressomon wrote:For household and everyday use with both the PV Export and L1 sitting side by side...the L1 would get used 99% of the time.

Just curious, if you get comparable of better shots from the Export why not use it more frequently? Is it just the experience of operating the L I? The Londinium must look/feel like from another world compared to the Export.

DanoM wrote:Once the spring lever is in play on a full pressure group it keeps 9 BAR for a while before tapering to 6-7 BAR toward the end.

Just curious, where did you get these pressure numbers, especially about the "6-7 BAR toward the end ? That is really puzzling since under this pressure one should not be able to remove the portafilter for a long time after the shot's end. Also, such high pressure towards the end is incompatible with spring pressure release which naturally come on to zero.

As stated above the numbers I THINK came from Another_Jim's postings. Someone ran tests on the Strega with a pressure gauge and valve attached. They found that near the end of the pull the pressure tapers down to 6-7 BAR, and there's nothing strange about that. If the group has liquid in it and the spring is under load there will be pressure. Once the piston has bottomed out and the residual pressure releases you can unlock the PF as normal - only takes a few seconds. (I normally do a slight tip of the lever at the end to make sure all liquid is expelled, and you'll hear a slight air hiss telling you that it's ready to unlock. Never have a wet puck or PF explosion if you listen for the hiss.)

Also note, that spring pressure doesn't actually fall to 0 ever. The pressure from the piston might fall to 0, but the spring is still under pressure against the piston. We are not expending all the stored energy from the springs, but keeping them taught so they end their pull still under load and 6 BAR pressure capable. (At least I think I have that right. )

spressomon wrote:I usually pull 15-16g with the Export which entails, at or near 50% brew ratio, 2.5 to 3 lever pulls whereas the L1 is a one pull scenario using ~16g (or more).

Have you measured what is the maximum capacity of the PV single- and double- baskets? What is the volume coffee produced by a single pull on the PV?

Thanks.

Onemoreshot did a veritable study of a Lusso two group back in 2010 starting here in this spring lever thread.

EDIT: I've been thinking about a Lusso since before this thread, but build quality has always worried me (there's plenty of fried brain posts, etc. here and on CG). Then no one was carrying them in the states for over a year, but now they're back at 1st-line, and of course I'm "thinking" about one again!

Having worked with a PV machine and its build issues and having had a Strega on my counter too, Strega's in a whole other league, with a commercial group, made by a long- established and innovative family business. This is versus a home lever group that's capable but a PITA to service by a company whose build quality has been suspect for years.