drgary wrote:Elektra doesn't have better build quality than a Strega, nor does Zacconi.

Oh, I meant Elektra and Zacconi quality compared to PV, not to Bezzera!

For what it is worth, here is my 2 cents.
I have owned and used my PV Lusso 2 group for 2 years. Every day (except holidays) I make 3-6 espressos. When entertaining, as much as 10-12 in a row.
Issues: The brain cooked - solved by rewiring and cutting out the low water warning. Works fine.
Changed the gaskets - a bit of a hassle, but I managed in about an hour.

Apart from this, coffee has flowed painlessly from the quiet little thing, and even my 6yo granddaughter can make a pull (with a steadying helping hand).
So far my feeling is that the PVL makes good espresso, regularly without any fuss, quietly, and it looks neat and not too dominating on the kitchen bench.
I would reccommend it for home use, even to my friends.

Thanks Old bridge, that has been the opinion of the vast majority of PV owners in fact.

When I saw the two group PV I felt immediately in love, I wanted one for me.
However, after reading the reports and verifying all the difficulties our colleagues were experiencing I ended up deciding for the Strega.
I'm very satisfied with the Strega, I only wish I could have some more temperature fine tuning control, as (I'm not sure if fortunately or unfortunately) I'm quite taste sensitive to relatively small differences.
A coffee colleague, who owns a shop with a two group Bosco Sorrento served by a Mythos and two other big Mazzers, said that he preferred the taste of his home PV, but that it broke down after something like six months of use.
Recently (about two years later), we met again and I asked him about the PV : still broken, he simply doesn't have all the necessary time to fix it (obs. He's the DIY type of guy).
I believe I made the right choice.

I was quite surprised to hear from two independent sources that the PV group equals or better the coffee brewed on the Bosco group. Considering the Bosco group is well regarded and used by several different manufacturers in commercial packages that's quite an accomplishment. And the assessment rings even truer because the muddling "pride of ownership", usually a radiation effect of expensive toys, is close to non existent in the case of humble PV.

I agree that a new machine should not break down after a few months - that is a bother that any buyer would be discouraged by.

Recently (about two years later), we met again and I asked him about the PV : still broken, he simply doesn't have all the necessary time to fix it (obs. He's the DIY type of guy).

On the other hand, there is no part of a PV Lusso that cannot be rebuilt in a matter of hours, not days, let alone years. I rebuilt and Export from scratch in a few hours (after foolishly boiling it dry). I also restored both a Lusso and an Export from second hand, both with only modest effort and a few hours of work. There simply are not that many parts, wires, etc. Every single piece, including the piston removal tool, is available here:

http://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com/pontevecchio.html

Again, I'm not recommending the PV over the Strega. I'm simply noting that if bought from a reliable vendor who checks the machine before shipping, the QC issues should be minimal, the build quality more than sufficient, maintenance manageable.

PC

Ivor wrote:I was quite surprised to hear from two independent sources that the PV group equals or better the coffee brewed on the Bosco group. Considering the Bosco group is well regarded and used by several different manufacturers in commercial packages that's quite an accomplishment. And the assessment rings even truer because the muddling "pride of ownership", usually a radiation effect of expensive toys, is close to non existent in the case of humble PV.

Keep in mind that there are a number of variations in the large group used by Bosco & others. Different pistons, springs, boiler fed, HX feed, dippers, thermosyphons, ramp? ect. Mods that each company makes & doesn't make public. Just read through the claims in the L1-P Owner's thread about the differences between the L1 & L1-P taste wise. I can pull different tasting shots with my Sorrento depending on grind, length of PI time, basket used, ect.

A statement that "two independent sources" prefer the PV group doesn't mean much without specifics.

JohnB. wrote:
A statement that "two independent sources" prefer the PV group doesn't mean much without specifics.

Well, at the beginning of this thread spressomon said that the espresso from his PV Export equals or better that from his L1; then on this page bmb cited a colleague of his who preferred the taste of of his home PV to that of Bosco Sorrento. Both opinions are general and subjective yet at the same time they are apparently based on relatively extended use, not a one off cup comparison. For me that is indicative, and I don't need any more specifics.

Indicative of the tastes of 2 people. Nothing more. The folks in the L1-P thread prefer the taste of their shots over an L1. Both have the Bosco style group & each produces different tasting shots.

JohnB. wrote:Indicative of the tastes of 2 people. Nothing more.

For me it means a lot more, and I explained the reasons in the preceding posts.