Past and current Decent Espresso users, DE1+ or Pro? - Page 4

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.

#31: Post by TallDan »

Should have mentioned earlier in the thread, there's a zoom call with John in just a few hours, details over on the decent news thread:

Decent Espresso news

He has been doing these regularly, but I haven't joined. Might be a good place to get some questions answered.


#32: Post by jevenator »

Some days I make 5 shots a day. That would put me at almost 5.5 years if I literally made 5 shots every single day which isn't the case.

I don't think the Pro is worth the extra $ unless you're a Cafe. If buying the pro gives you a stronger tingle in the morning that you bought a pro then go for it. If you have extra income that you can easily forget about the $300 you spent then yah why not? I don't think that's a case for most people. I personally saved up every penny.

In about 5 years I think that's enough time to see problems coming through and that will be enough for you to fix it under warrenty. Even if in 6-7 years I'd happily replace it myself for what like $45-50 a pump? That's not bad + by then we will have newer better pumps that are quieter.

They're already trying to source pumps that are 20db quieter I believe.
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#33: Post by Jeff »

The current pumps are already quiet, especially compared to a typical vibe pump. They are unique in the way they sound, sort of reminiscent of a Model T on Beverly Hillbillies in a comforting way. I don't find them objectionable at all. The dogs ignore them and my parrot doesn't mimic them.


#34: Post by Incognito007 »

What do folks think about the mirror panel? I opted to wait for the 1.4v (i initially ordered the 1.3 but was able to upgrade to the 1.4 for no additional cost). I initially considered the mirror panel as much nicer looking. It seems like Decent likes the brushed panel better even on the pro, and I'm quite clumsy and it's been pointed out that on the mirror panel smudges and such show very easily. However if you keep it clean as pointed out in a previous comment the mirror panel must look good in the kitchen.


#35: Post by jevenator »

Yah I have no problems with the pump sound. I enjoy it myself and like how I know the flow rate generally just by even the sound.

And I really liked the looks of the mirror panel that I was actually considering the pro just to get it. But that's because I've never really owned a machine that's polished and mirror. And it'd give me that touch.

After using my DE1 for over a month and wiping off the glue-on mirror strip quite often it requires a bit of work sometimes to get clean. To wipe off the brushed steel it's quite easy. I honestly can't imagine trying to keep the mirror panel super clean that I'm actually quite happy with the brushed steel and mirror lip.
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#36: Post by Plinyyounger »

The discussion is getting better as we go.lots of good first hand info which I appreciate. I am so close to pulling the trigger but am going to wait another day or two so I feel I am totally informed by actual users.

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#37: Post by Jeff »

John's a perfectionist. He couldn't find a supplier of the mirrored panels that met his quality standards. When they made the production switch, the last of the rejected panels were offered to people in the queue. I have vague memories of one person thinking they found the imperfection, but not being entirely sure. The material and vendors for the mirror for the lip went through quite a long list and trials as well.

I was one of those considering buying a PRO panel just for the mirrored lip. With a brushed panel behind, cleanup is a lot less stressful. When that day comes that there's a stray coffee grind or the like on the rag, the scratch will look just like all the other brush marks. Brushed also doesn't show water spots and the reminders of your spritzers as obviously as does polished.


#38: Post by Davidm »

As mentioned a few posts ago. There is a zoom call in 16 minutes. Get on it and talk to the founder of the company. There will also be plenty of users on the call.

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#39: Post by decent_espresso »

A number of people have asked the factual question "what is the hardware difference between the DE1+ and DE1PRO".

Besides the IMS screen and included mirror, both of which you can buy separately, the main difference is the "mean time between failure" (MTBF) of the internal pumps and valves.

MTBF is a stated number provided by the manufacturer. For the pumps, it's X number of usage cycles, defined as "30 seconds a full power".

For the DE1+, the pumps we buy have an MTBF of about 10,000 use cycles, whereas the pumps on the DE1PRO have an MTBF of about 200,000 use cycles.

We have similar numbers for the valves.

What's the internal difference? We don't know, the vendor won't tell us. What they do to accomplish a longer MTBF is very much a trade secret. The sales people will wave their hands, talk about exotic materials like "ruby seals" (yes, the same expensive mineral that's in jewelry) but ultimately they tell us nothing real. We pay more for the part, to get a better spec sheet.

We pay more for these longer-MTBF components, and so we charge more for those machines. It's a question of "fitness to purpose".

I suspect our real MTBF numbers are too conservative, because unlike most vibe-pump machines, we never run our pumps at full power. We control every cycle pump. The pumps are rated each at 12 ml/s, but we never ask for more than a combined flow rate of 8 ml/s. The cool pump rarely gets more than 30% power use, for example. Does this mean the pumps will last 3x longer? We don't know.

Bottom line:
- the DE1+ was meant for home users, where 10,000 shots, at 3 shots a day, every day, is minimum 10 years of use.
- the DE1PRO was meant for café use, where 200 shots a day, per machine, with a 6 day week, would give you a minimum of 3 years of use.
- real longevity numbers, if you use low-calcium water, are likely to be higher, since we're not driving our pumps at full power
- the pumps are easy to self-replace, and sell at $28.80 each. We only sell the PRO pumps as a separate part.

And yes, the Decent warranty is like a car warranty:
- 2 years, or 10,000 shots, whichever comes first, for the DE1+
- 2 years, or 200,000 shots, whichever comes first, for the DE1PRO

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#40: Post by PIXIllate »

decent_espresso wrote:A number of people have asked the factual question "what is the hardware difference between the DE1+ and DE1PRO".

And yes, the Decent warranty is like a car warranty:
- 2 years, or 10,000 shots, whichever comes first, for the DE1+
- 2 years, or 200,000 shots, whichever comes first, for the DE1PRO


Thank you. Clarity and openness is so refreshing these days.