I had some brief experience with a Cremina and now with a La Pavoni Europiccola. I tasted the benefits of lever machine. After dealing with the set pressure of the Vibiemme PID Double Boiler I have wanted some way to control flow or pressure without having to open the case (a case I never liked). If you examining the plot herein, and are thinking ahead, the obvious choice is a manual or spring lever manual machine (Cremina, Londinum, ?), but my shoulders are not up to that task. So..

I have been window shopping for my next machine. I have currently narrowed it down to two, but I stress, "currently." One was the Rocket R Nine One. It looked very tempting since it had a manual control for pressure, and if the curve worked I could save it to memory. Very cool! Plus the additional, customizable profiles and saturated group. I spoke with one highly respected reseller and asked about two machines. I was talked out of this one. I was told that it needed special tools to calibrate the potentiometer for the manual control (among other tools? I am not sure), and it was quite complicated inside. The other thing I could not find are any quality internal photos or video reviews of the internal build of the Rocket to satisfy my curiosity.

The other machine I mentioned to them, and the only other machine currently on my list at the moment, is the Vesuvius. This has the E-61 group (and my readers know what a fan I have been of that design), and it works much like the Rocket. Besides the difference of the group's design, EDIT: for manual control of pressure profiles you use the touch screen during the extraction. ADD: The Vesuvius has no control during extraction other then lowering the lever to stop the extraction. The boilers and all internal piping are stainless steel as is the case and the frame. The pump always draws water from the reservoir even when plumbed so line pressure does not influence the extraction pressure control. The Vesuvius, which costs $2300 less than the Rocket is the one they recommended over the Rocket. You have to respect a retailer who would do that.

If the La Marzocco GS/3 had some sort of memory to save and store manual flow control profiles I would consider it. But I have no desire at all to have to manually control every extraction. I suppose I could say the same for the Slayer, but I cannot justify that large of an investment.

So this may change at any time, but that is where I am today with the decision. There is no rush because if I am ready to purchase in four months I will be fortunate. If you have any suggestions that might meet my current requirements, or have criticism of my choices, please feel free to pile on.

PS - I have a Kafatek MC3 conical so we don't have to worry about that.

I am interested in this thread -- but one question -- is anyone else worried about the longevity and parts availability in the future of these new profiling machines? The standard E61 machines use mostly off the shelf replacement parts that are common to many manufacturers, what about these newer designs?

So the Decent machines don't have a decent design for you? Why aren't they on the list?

Following...

Guessing that by now you have seen all the multiple threads reviewing and providing feedback on it...

Vesuvius Espresso Machine Review

Vesuvius 2 pressure profiling

I love the looks, but it did not make my list for several reasons:

• I really do not want to deal with a water reservoir (the periodically removing and cleaning it will require)... once I went plumbed, I am so happy not having to deal with the tank. When I recently plumbed my Rocket I covered the tank so no dust nor coffee grounds go into it... The Vesuvius, even if plumbed, it goes through the water reservoir.
• Reviews were not that great in terms of component reliability (https://www.1st-line.com/buy/acs-vesuvi ... ws_summary). Maybe not an issue anymore...but those reviews, I just linked there, were from 2019... only two, so not statistically relevant, but I did not wanted to be in that boat...

I do like the idea of repeatability that it provides... I love the looks of it over the DE... plus I hate the noise the DE makes... I know these are superfluous reasons for not going with a DE, but I just love the looks of a classic espresso machine with an E61 setup, a GS3, etc. The DE has proven to be a great machine, but all of its technology capabilities will be lost with me.

I thought that I decided on the ECM Synchronika, but the fact that I need to wait until October to buy anything, has me still looking for other alternatives. This will be my last espresso machine... I just do not want to be upgrading again after the next purchase.

So again, following along. Keep us posted on your research.

Spent an hour or so on the Decent website this AM. When John started out I signed up to participate in the groundwork as a "volunteer consultant" and gave some design input. I did tell him I was interested in the machine back then. That was years ago.

Surprised that there are no internal pics of the machine. But worse than that (for me) is that there is no list of replaceable parts nor any discussion of possible user repairs. Seems like any repair has to go back to them. Please correct me if I am wrong. But the real negative I had seen was the 1+ minute steaming time when he showed making the two lattes (caps?). The sound of it was a bit annoying, but he did the sound test video with no coffee in the portafilter. Worse with coffee?

I personally own a Slayer, for the money, I believe Decent is tough to beat.
I would focus on reliability and servability in this case...
You want your machine working in your home... not at the repair shop or in transit...

wachuko wrote:Following...
I love the looks, but it did not make my list for several reasons:
I really do not want to deal with a water reservoir...

My machine will be next to a bar sink on the left side of the machine on the coffee bar so not a problem for me.

wachuko wrote:Reviews were not that great in terms of component reliability (https://www.1st-line.com/buy/acs-vesuvi ... ws_summary). Maybe not an issue anymore...but those reviews, I just linked there, were from 2019... only two, so not statistically relevant, but I did not wanted to be in that boat...

iirc, the early complaints revolved around or were caused by the power cord, the anti-vac valve, and the electronics. The first two were remedied with a better on-machine socket for the cord and an larger anti-vac valve. The electronic problems apparently turned out to be a problem with the magnetic pump which was addressed by the motor's source factory.

The DE seems to be a design study in proprietary components. I would really like to see some internal photos, parts list/diagram/etc. of it. With all the levels of control it seems to be more suited for use in a coffee lab. For touch controls, the top of the group looks interesting, but I would prefer a linear ("touch slider") adjustment across the center with the various selections remaining on the perimeter. That would be more intuitive and make paying attention to the extraction itself easier. Also did not find an owners manual to download at DE.

All the machines I am looking at are more technically complicated than I would normally desire (back to the manual lever), but at least the Vesuvius has been around for a while and appears to be easy to work on (if needed).

VESUVIUS OWNERS: How does your machine perform in terms of cabinet, drip tray, and cup warmer rattles and vibrations?

Randy wants a machine that has the ability to repeat the shots with the profiles he tries... that is what got me interested in this thread.

Outside of repeatability, yeah, I would go with the ECM Synchronika... but if Randy's research ends up with a machine that has all the stuff that I like with the ECM, but also allows to repeat a shot... then that would be a better option that I would like to consider.

So now back to normal programming... those with Vesuvius machines and Rocket R Nine One, chime in!

The lever (or "joystick") steam and water valves are not a deal breaker, but I prefer the traditional type. It can be handy when using a powerful steam monster to be able to set a more gentle steam flow when stretching smaller volumes of milk without having to hold a lever.

The Profitec Pro700 was on my original short list until I investigated the nuances of programmed flow control. As others have mentioned, I am assuming that this is my last machine. Beyond the fact that I am getting closer to 70 every day, it's only fair I get a lifetime machine; I already have a lifetime grinder.

The desire for programmable flow control was also influenced by the fact that I now have a 500-750gram capacity gas roaster. It is used, but still sitting in its crate. Once the home construction is done (assuming it eventually stops raining and snowing) I am thinking I will be roasting (and drinking) more coffee! And I do want to experiment with new roast profiles as well.

Randy G. wrote:But worse than that (for me) is that there is no list of replaceable parts nor any discussion of possible user repairs. Seems like any repair has to go back to them. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You are wrong.

They encourage users to repair their own machine if they are willing and capable and if they aren't there's a community of users who help each other out. They are very supportive of customers with issues either directly or through the Basecamp "forum".

All the parts are available to buy on their website, although the parts list is not easy to find. A lot of the parts are standard industry parts (pumps, connectors, hoses).

https://decentespresso.com/c?show=all

AIUI John Buckman was banned from this forum so a lot of the discussion of this machine takes place elsewhere, especially on the closed Basecamp group, which is where this sort of information can be found, but it's only open to machine owners.