Nurri Leva S.A. or ACS Vesuvius Evo Leva - Page 2

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
macaber8

#11: Post by macaber8 »

I am ACS Vesuvius Evo Leva owner. Vesuvius does have some flex when pulling down for sure but it doesnt bother me at all.

I also tried brewing with the newer "holes all the way to the edge" baskets, like billet baskets from sworksdesign. I can say if you are going to play with these basket for SPROVER, filter 3.0, or simply for a faster pull and higher extraction with more clarity, you want to wait for Vostok. Here is my reason:

I think the flexibility of hybrid lever machine are underestimated. With lever machine, by manipulating the lever, one could either add pressure or decrease pressure during the extraction process. This is essentially flow control. Levers are controlled by hand so not as repeatable as Decent but still with smart profiler or similar product, one can experiment anything on a level.

That said, once you are dialed in, a shot stopper is very critical. WIth my Vesuvius, unfortunately, I have to move the cup away by hand when I eyeball the target the pressure level or the timer is at zero. With Vostok, one can actually program when to stop the shot. The benefit is not that you dont have to move away your shot anymore, instead the main point is the undesirable liquid will not accidently getting into your shot if the shot is stopped automatically. And there will not be a mess.

At times, I have instances where the pressure will drop insanely quickly from 6-7 bar to 2 bar. In this case, it is very difficult to catch that moment and push the cup away quick enough. Also, when doing sprover, we are shooting for that 1:12 ratio. If you have a scale under your cup, moving both away during the middle of the shot is going to be messy. I am dying to have that automatically shot stop feature on my Vesuvius.

BTW, it is very convenient that Vostok have a light at the cup level.

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mrgnomer

#12: Post by mrgnomer »

Don't know about the Leva or S.A. but with a Strega pulling down against the lever stops a classic shot, slows down a turbo and should slow down a sprover. I have a cup ready to exchange and catch the end of pulls.

If you're quick or careful you can remove one cup and place another in with little to no flow overspill and without pulling back the lever.
Kirk
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professionals do it for the pay, amateurs do it for the love

astibolt (original poster)

#13: Post by astibolt (original poster) »

I very much appreciate all of the time taken to provide feedback on these two espresso machines! I am very pleased to know that both machines appear to be very capable and much loved by those who are using them. Thanks so much for the very nice descriptions of your user experience and thoughts on feature differences.

I have considered the Vostok, and the combination of features and price make it almost a "no brainer," but the size is just too big for me!

I'm very drawn to the features of the Vostok in the Evo Leva form-factor - I'll be in touch with Maria today to see what the timeline and price look like for that machine.

From a visual design standpoint, the Nurri is indeed striking! The ACS is a fine looking machine, but the Nurri is a work of art. The very "analog" design ethos of the Nurri is very attractive to me; my two other espresso machines have been a La Pavoni Europiccola and the Salvatore Compact Lever. A significant part of the appeal of both of my previous machines to me is their relative simplicity - by this, I mean that there are relatively few parts, all of which are robust, available, and user serviceable. I have maintained these machines myself and plan on eventually handing down both of these to my kids. In some ways, I believe the Nurri "feels like" it falls naturally into this "set." On the other hand, the Evo Leva feel to me like it is still a relatively simple lever at heart with some modern elements (electronics) in the user interface, and in some ways it is appealing because of the minor ways in which it is different from what I have chosen in the past.

One of the reasons that I asked if anyone had experience with both machines was to get comparative feedback on the characteristics that may not be fully described in a list of features. There is part of me that is tempted to think that "more expensive" means "better", but I know that this is not always true. How significant are the differences in features, tactile feel, fit and finish, workflow, etc.? Does the Nurri feel like a better machine? Has anyone seen in real life the difference in how these two machines "flex" when pulling the lever? I may be asking too much as I suspect there may only be a couple of people out there who have been able to use both, but thanks to all for your feedback.

Primacog

#14: Post by Primacog replying to astibolt »

On flex, I have posted earlier that I do not notice any flex at all with my nurri leva and I have not seen any comments by other nurri owners complaining of any flex either. It seems as strong and immovable structurally as my izzo previously (though much less massive of course).

On workflow, you first of course set the temperatures of the grouphead, brew boiler and steam boiler independently through the pid. This will remain at those settings till u change them in the future regardless if u switch the machine on or off. You can set the pressure level on the preinfusion pump with a screwdriver through a rear port. You can flush the grouphead before u load the portafilter by pushing the right paddle forward - this engages the rotary pump, so no need to pull down on the lever handle to do that and your shoulder may thank you for that!

Once u load the portafilter with grinds inside, u pull down the lever as usual with the nurri and the rotary pump comes on. You can continue to adjust the preinfusion pump at this point through the same means all the way through the preinfusion phase if you like (The port will be replaced with a retroffitable control dial soon).

Once u release the lever handle, the pump switches off and the shot timer comes on automatically and the extraction runs like any other spring lever if that's how you want it (it means u can do fellini moves and other kindz of lever based tricks). But u can also turn the pump back on during extraction if you want by pushing the right paddle - this will bump the pressure up to whatever level the pump is set at and u can also adjust the pressure level by hand too.

When you decide the shot has run it's course, you can end the shot by pulling the left paddle forward and that opens a valve in tbe grouphead and empties the grouphead of water into the driptray. Or u can let it drain till the puck is dry or do the same trick that almost All other spring levers are forced to use which is use a teaspoon or plastic container to contain the drip afte r remove the cup. The point is u have the option of terminating the shot like a pump machine with its solenoid valve which is very rare on a spring lever. Pulling the left handle also stops the shot timer.

The two paddles are on each side of the grouphead and it is like the two paddles on both sides of the steering wheel to change the gear setting on the transmission and feels as fun to use as that.

Is it "better" than the vesuvius evo? That question really depends on the user and it is very subjective. Each person will have their own preferences and opinions as they are looking for different things and prioritise different things. When you go into territory to ask which feels like the better machine, you are going to get the users and owners of each machine singing its respective praises. Both machines have avid and passionate fan bases which should tell you a lot about how much we respectively like them and thus how good they are. I can tell you how intuitive and satisfying i find using the nurri but it won't necessarily help u decide which one is best for you though...

The best way to find out is to try out both these machines for yourself but that is a difficult option indeed to pursue currently since they are not easily available in shops to try out usually. You may want to check with the nurri dealer in your country to see if they have any in stock in their showroom currently so that u can try it.

For me, after I have crunched all the features and cost issues, it usually boils down to the question of which machine captures my imagination if I don't have the chance to try it out for myself in person. That is usually a good indicator to me about whether I will enjoy using it more. But that's me - YMMV...
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philosli

#15: Post by philosli »

astibolt wrote: Both of these machines meet these desires, with the Nurri offering a little bit more. As I understand it, the areas in which the Nurri exceeds both my minimum desires and what the Evo Leva offers are the following:

1) Infusion pressures up to 9 bars (or the ability to flush the group-head) regardless of lever position, and
2) The ability to stop a shot by releasing all remaining pressure in the group-head back through the machine, into the drip tray.

While both of these features are appealing to me, here in the United States, the cost of the Nurri is about 50% more than the cost of the Evo Leva.

Can anyone who has used both of these machines share their opinion as to whether that additional 50% is worth it? I know that "worth it" is entirely subjective and relative, but I am looking for your opinion and why you have come to that opinion. Are there additional features that the Nurri has that I am not taking into account? Is there something about the workflow, functionality, or fit and finish that makes the Nurri worth a 50% larger investment? Thanks in advance for your feedback as I consider this machine upgrade.
I'm not sure if the Nurri will cost 50% more in the US. I only know it will be carried by Clive Coffee.

I have ACS Evo Leva. If Nurri really is 50% more than ACS Evo Leva, I will say these two features are not really worth that much. The 9-bar preinfusion is not pre-infusion, it is actually brewing. But if you want to do that on an Evo Leva, you can mimic it by pull down the lever and then raise the lever right away, but retard the lever to hold it at 9 bar by monitoring the brew head manometer. But I doubt you really want to do that as "preinfusion" or as often enough that the "auto" 9-bar preinfusion makes more sense.

The ability to stop a shot can be done in a simple way by removing the cup and let the remaining coffee drip into a catch cup or the drip tray. But if you want to go further, you can pull down the lever slightly to release the pressure, holding the lever without releasing it and then remove the porta filter. This can be done on all spring lever machines, not specific to ACS Evo Leva. The peddle on Nurri adds convenience.
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astibolt (original poster)

#16: Post by astibolt (original poster) »

Thanks Baz! Your description of the machine and its operating characteristics are very thorough and paint a beautiful picture of using it. I'm glad to hear that you don't notice any flex in the Nurri - what I observe in videos of the Evo doesn't really scare me, but it does make me wonder if it's not constructed quite as robustly as the Nurri. By way of reference, I've never noticed any discernible flex in my Salvatore.

With regard to adjustment of pump pressure: as the adjustment port is on the rear of the machine and the machine is both deep and heavy, is it feasible to easily access the port to make adjustments between shots or even during the shot?

I sure would love to use both, or even one, of these machines before I make a purchase, but I don't think there are very many in the United States, and probably none within a day's drive of northwest Florida.

Primacog

#17: Post by Primacog replying to astibolt »

In regards to flex and the evo, I have read a post on the forums that the evo is currently being redesigned to strengthen the front panel to reduce the flexing issue, so that may bring more reassurement to you.

On adjusting the preinfusion pressure on the Nurri, there is no need to move the machine so weight isnt an issue and between shots, time is not a problem since you can leisurely adjust the pressure. However I agree that it is harder to adjust the rear port on the fly during the shot as u have a window of only a few seconds generally for preinfusion since you have to insert a screwdriver into the port. It will be much easier to do adjustments on the fly once the upcoming control dial retrofit is finished.

For me though I hardly ever adjust the preinfusion pressure as I find the coffee very satisfying already as it is and so I haven't started experimenting with that new variable yet. Since you were interested in the pump being able to go up to 9 bar, I was just mentioning that adjusting the pressure during the shot is something that can be done if you are interested to see what effect that will make to the taste. The beauty about having a purely hands-on control system like the nurri is that it is open ended - what you do and can and want to think of doing with it, is entirely up to you.
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pizzaman383
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#18: Post by pizzaman383 »

I have been following the development and evolution of these two machines closely. This thread caused me to do some comparisons and I think I noticed a difference between the two that I don't think I saw mentioned.

The ACS Vesuvius Evo Leva appears to use a modernized clone of the LSM group while the Nurri Leva appears to use either an LSM supplied group or a clone that more closely resembles the original LSM group. The modern clones have a removable group sleeve and three water feed holes whereas the original LSM group does not have a sleeve and has only one water feed hole in the cylinder. There are slight differences in the piston design, as well.

The functional differences are probably not significant but I thought it was worth mentioning.
Curtis
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DaveC

#19: Post by DaveC replying to pizzaman383 »

Antonio (who is a friend of mine, as is Paulo, owner of ACS) uses the same group as the Evo now. In the very early models he was using the Izzo variant, but changed it some time ago. I know this, because I also know the group manufacturer who supplies them both :lol:

There is a functional difference in how the group is vented at the end of the shot, beyond the use of a paddle, automatic or button, but that's not something I feel appropriate to go into here. The groups themselves are the same though, just so people don't think one is using an inferior, or superior group to the other and can take a balanced view on other features.