Niche Zero vs Mazzer Super Jolly SSP
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Word_salad
- Posts: 197
- Joined: 5 years ago
A recent thread by user Hiro Protagonist was contemplating the various pros and cons the the Niche Zero and an upgraded Mazzer Super Jolly (Niche Zero to replace Mazzer Super Jolly - upgrade or sidegrade)
I have both of those grinders and use them both daily, so I figured it would be of interest to compare the two. These are really interesting grinders, I believe they are the best conical and flat grinders that you can single dose for under $1k.
For me they both have their specific function; the Niche for medium to dark roasts that I pull on my Lelit Mara and generally make milk drinks with. It is incredibly easy to use and very rarely do I pull sink shots. The espresso it has great texture and strong flavor.
The Super Jolly is a pain to use, or was at first. The addition of Daniel Wong's doserless mod and a few weeks of practice and single dosing takes less than 30s. I have the espresso set of SSP burrs. There are many threads discussing the benefits of these, this one in particular by user Jake_G is great
Mazzer Super Jolly SSP Burr Upgrade: Thoughts and Results
Both grinders have no retention (I made a total of 8 shots this morning and got zero retention every time, I do use RDT), and grind quickly.
I have both of those grinders and use them both daily, so I figured it would be of interest to compare the two. These are really interesting grinders, I believe they are the best conical and flat grinders that you can single dose for under $1k.
For me they both have their specific function; the Niche for medium to dark roasts that I pull on my Lelit Mara and generally make milk drinks with. It is incredibly easy to use and very rarely do I pull sink shots. The espresso it has great texture and strong flavor.
The Super Jolly is a pain to use, or was at first. The addition of Daniel Wong's doserless mod and a few weeks of practice and single dosing takes less than 30s. I have the espresso set of SSP burrs. There are many threads discussing the benefits of these, this one in particular by user Jake_G is great
Mazzer Super Jolly SSP Burr Upgrade: Thoughts and Results
Both grinders have no retention (I made a total of 8 shots this morning and got zero retention every time, I do use RDT), and grind quickly.
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Word_salad (original poster)
- Posts: 197
- Joined: 5 years ago
Now for the test itself, I will preface this by saying this was far from a perfect adherence to the scientific method and I only tested a light roasted washed process Ethiopian. From my experience the Niche does really well with medium to dark roast and the Super Jolly doesn't really shine for these, which is why I limited this test to a light roast.
The roast of choice was from Blue Print Coffee from Saint Louis, my personal favorite roaster
In addition I pulled shots on my La Peppina for a couple reasons. First I can pull back to back shots in under a minute, whereas the Mara takes ~5 mins to temp stabilize. Second the easy temperature control of the Peppina made temp repeatability possible. Lastly the ability to pressure profile with the spring lever has produced great results with lighter roasts. This is a slight draw back as it is detrimental to repeatability though.
Methods
Every shot was 12g in, 26-28g out with a 10s preinfusion and 36-40s shot time starting at 7bar and decreasing to 4 bar by the end of the shot.
I made both coffees in identical cups one having a mark on the bottom, then I would wait until both were cool, move the cups around and try to forget which was which (far from blind I know). I would taste one at a time and take notes, then have some sparkling water between. I did this two times before I was too caffeinated.
The roast of choice was from Blue Print Coffee from Saint Louis, my personal favorite roaster
In addition I pulled shots on my La Peppina for a couple reasons. First I can pull back to back shots in under a minute, whereas the Mara takes ~5 mins to temp stabilize. Second the easy temperature control of the Peppina made temp repeatability possible. Lastly the ability to pressure profile with the spring lever has produced great results with lighter roasts. This is a slight draw back as it is detrimental to repeatability though.
Methods
Every shot was 12g in, 26-28g out with a 10s preinfusion and 36-40s shot time starting at 7bar and decreasing to 4 bar by the end of the shot.
I made both coffees in identical cups one having a mark on the bottom, then I would wait until both were cool, move the cups around and try to forget which was which (far from blind I know). I would taste one at a time and take notes, then have some sparkling water between. I did this two times before I was too caffeinated.
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Word_salad (original poster)
- Posts: 197
- Joined: 5 years ago
Results
Trial 1:
Blind cup 1
Notes: Bright, slightly sour, orange and jasmine front with a faint chocolatey finish.
Blind cup 2
Sour, complex fruity but slightly vegetal flavor, wine like acidity, lemon and orange citrus pervading flavor.
Trial 2
Blind cup 1
Harsh on the front, nice fruity brightness after the first sip, some lemon sweetness, very faint bitter chocolate on the finish
Blind cup 2
Sweet mellow florals out the gate, orange candy turning to fruity chocolate at the finish.
For trial 1 cup1 was the SJ, cup 2 the Niche
For trial 2 cup 1 was the Niche cup 2 was the SJ
Trial 1:
Blind cup 1
Notes: Bright, slightly sour, orange and jasmine front with a faint chocolatey finish.
Blind cup 2
Sour, complex fruity but slightly vegetal flavor, wine like acidity, lemon and orange citrus pervading flavor.
Trial 2
Blind cup 1
Harsh on the front, nice fruity brightness after the first sip, some lemon sweetness, very faint bitter chocolate on the finish
Blind cup 2
Sweet mellow florals out the gate, orange candy turning to fruity chocolate at the finish.
For trial 1 cup1 was the SJ, cup 2 the Niche
For trial 2 cup 1 was the Niche cup 2 was the SJ
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Word_salad (original poster)
- Posts: 197
- Joined: 5 years ago
Discussion
In this test the Super Jolly won convincingly, however there were several factors to its advantage that must be considered. The biggest one is that I've been using the SJ with this coffee for about a week, it's pretty dialed in. I made 3 shots on the Niche before I was happy with the output parameters, but to dial the Niche by taste would probably take a lot more coffee. Also there seems to be a consensus that flats really bring out flavor separation and clarity which is something I like and something that really makes this particular coffee shine. That is going to skew my tasting preferences towards flat burr grinders and probably bias me.
There were some issues with the testing of course. I think I made it about as blind as I could with just one person running it, and I didn't really know which cup was which when I tasted, but this isn't really a blind study. As I mentioned the Peppina has a lot of attributes that make is great for this study, but the variability of the pressure profiling does add some error. A pressure gauge helped keep things pretty similar, but it's not perfect.
Bottom line, I want two grinders for grinding two different types of coffee, and the Niche for medium roasts and the SJ for light roasts is a good set up. I do think you need good temp control and some form of preinfusion to get the most out of the Super Jolly. Before I had the Peppina I used the Mara for all my shots and most light roasted coffees only produced battery acid, even with the upgraded Super Jolly. Now I'm rambling because I'm way too caffeinated, but if there are any question please ask.
In this test the Super Jolly won convincingly, however there were several factors to its advantage that must be considered. The biggest one is that I've been using the SJ with this coffee for about a week, it's pretty dialed in. I made 3 shots on the Niche before I was happy with the output parameters, but to dial the Niche by taste would probably take a lot more coffee. Also there seems to be a consensus that flats really bring out flavor separation and clarity which is something I like and something that really makes this particular coffee shine. That is going to skew my tasting preferences towards flat burr grinders and probably bias me.
There were some issues with the testing of course. I think I made it about as blind as I could with just one person running it, and I didn't really know which cup was which when I tasted, but this isn't really a blind study. As I mentioned the Peppina has a lot of attributes that make is great for this study, but the variability of the pressure profiling does add some error. A pressure gauge helped keep things pretty similar, but it's not perfect.
Bottom line, I want two grinders for grinding two different types of coffee, and the Niche for medium roasts and the SJ for light roasts is a good set up. I do think you need good temp control and some form of preinfusion to get the most out of the Super Jolly. Before I had the Peppina I used the Mara for all my shots and most light roasted coffees only produced battery acid, even with the upgraded Super Jolly. Now I'm rambling because I'm way too caffeinated, but if there are any question please ask.
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lessthanjoey
- Posts: 362
- Joined: 4 years ago
Many thanks for doing this Word_salad!
As we discussed earlier I have a very similar SJ and am likely going to pick up a niche to experiment with. I hope to add here with a repeat of your experiment when I can!
In the interim, I think I'll go ahead and sand my SJ for alignment
As we discussed earlier I have a very similar SJ and am likely going to pick up a niche to experiment with. I hope to add here with a repeat of your experiment when I can!
In the interim, I think I'll go ahead and sand my SJ for alignment
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Javier
- Posts: 649
- Joined: 18 years ago
It is interesting how each person's taste buds differ, i.e., when I had my Super Jolly I thought it was fantastic for medium to dark roasts (with stock Mazzer burrs).Word_salad wrote: From my experience the Niche does really well with medium to dark roast and the Super Jolly doesn't really shine for these, which is why I limited this test to a light roast
By the way, I love your La Peppina with the pressure gauge!!
LMWDP #115
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Hiro Protagonist
- Posts: 4
- Joined: 4 years ago
Thank you for doing this comparison. I am getting the SSP Burrs today and have the doserless mod already installed. Your findings help me feel like I made the right choice for my espresso preferences. I do not use dark beans and most of the espresso I buy is probably lighter then medium. I also like single origin light roasts and will have to see how these burrs handle lighter roasts. Still considering another grinder if the SJ falls flat on lighter roasts.
