New to Lever, Experienced on Espresso - Buying Advice - Page 2

Recommendations for espresso equipment buyers and upgraders.
belegnole

#11: Post by belegnole » Nov 06, 2019, 2:33 pm

espressotime wrote:I wouldn, t call the LR commercial since it has a reservoir.
That's sort of nit picking, as it does use a commercial group. And some commercial machines that are set up to be used remotely use a reservoir.
LMWDP #641

chococar

#12: Post by chococar » Nov 07, 2019, 11:49 pm

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My experience with some Cremina's is that they are very reliable once you've done a little seal maintenance after acquiring one. I've been able to make excellent capuccinos with it using oat milk, even in a small 4-ounce cup..

forbeskm
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#13: Post by forbeskm » Nov 08, 2019, 12:00 am

I have a herd of levers down the road in superior including a Cremina or two if you want to test drive some before you make up your mind.

Love my daily Cremina, maintenance is very easy, its a 49mm btw.

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redbone

#14: Post by redbone » Nov 08, 2019, 10:06 am

Having owned and / or trialed a number of prosumer lever machines helps dispel some of the mysticism around certains machines that is perpetuated either justify cost or spending or continue to convey the mantra of the O. Cremina. The Cremina is nothing more than a slightly overbuilt vintage L.P. Europiccola Pro which can also be prone to overheat since it does not incorporate a group thermosyphon, also fully manual having no spring. Price is based on the cost of manufacturing in Switzerland as opposed to some technical wizardry. I'd take a spring group heavier built Faema Faemina with OPV setup for my particular roast over the O.C. Many small stable commercial group machines available today at or lower price with more features.

As the unofficial leading authority of prosumer machines Francesco C put it: "..however I tried it and according to my modest opinion the europiccola first model makes a better coffee at one tenth of the price." http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/m_olympia_eng.htm

A few in no particular order:

Zacconi Eagle (spring)
LPE and Pro
VAM / Caravel
Pedretti Kim
Bruni Brunella
Zerowatt ca 708
Sama Club
La Peppina
Faema Faemina
Radaelli Caffomatic
Between order and chaos there is espresso.
Semper discens.


Rob
LMWDP #549

BoulderMike

#15: Post by BoulderMike » replying to redbone » Nov 08, 2019, 11:14 am

Thanks for the response. It is very helpful. If I understand what you sent, and looking at the Francesco C site, it looks like the Cremina is really the Europiccola built into a nicer box, etc. Not sure if it is that simple, but it seems like it is the "guts" of the Cremina. It also seems like most people lean towards vintage Europiccola's. I would like that but I don't know how to find one that would have minimal risk of needing a lot of fixing. I have never purchased off of Ebay before. Finally, the Faemina looks nice. Am I correct that it is no longer manufactured?

Dev

#16: Post by Dev » Nov 08, 2019, 11:34 am

Sorry to have a differing opinion but my previous La Pavoni experience was nothing like the Cremina.
It might be based on the La Pavoni but everything else is not slightly better or a Europiccola in a box, its worlds better. Is it overbuilt and not justified practically, I would say no to that also. I found that its much easier to tame regarding heat management when you adopt the teflon gasket.

I also found that I can make better espresso from it consistently and that is where paying a few hundred dollars more is the bottom line for me. The overbuilt nature, the way the Pstat works, how the tray lifts out and the other minor details also makes owning the Cremina a complete package.

The La Pavoni experience was fun also but not so fun if you were to use a stronger pull compressing the base gasket and have the machine rotate. Not so fun when you have to replace the base gasket seal. Not so fun to chase leaks try to prevent corrosion and so on. When I use the Cremina there is a solidness of the lever the La Pavoni never had.

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redbone

#17: Post by redbone » Nov 08, 2019, 12:07 pm

BoulderMike wrote:Thanks for the response. It is very helpful. If I understand what you sent, and looking at the Francesco C site, it looks like the Cremina is really the Europiccola built into a nicer box, etc. Not sure if it is that simple, but it seems like it is the "guts" of the Cremina. It also seems like most people lean towards vintage Europiccola's. I would like that but I don't know how to find one that would have minimal risk of needing a lot of fixing. I have never purchased off of Ebay before. Finally, the Faemina looks nice. Am I correct that it is no longer manufactured?
Most of the vintage levers are no longer built but parts are available as most are standard and readily available. Glass tubes can be cut and heating elements can be made if needed. Francesco offers both parts and complete refurbished machines. Some members here, site Coff..Geek. and other online classified sites also offer completed machines for sale. Many of these machines have lasted 50+ years a glaring testament to their build and materials. With little care and maintenance another 50+ can be had. Quality vintage never goes out of style as some are kept just for show pieces.
Between order and chaos there is espresso.
Semper discens.


Rob
LMWDP #549

forbeskm
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#18: Post by forbeskm » Nov 08, 2019, 12:20 pm

Francesco rebuilds look fantastic. I have ordered parts from him in the past.

As for Cremina, one downside over the pavoni is it has a bigger boiler so it takes longer to heat up.... its more stable on the counter with the extra weight. I have had it over heat of left on, the heat brrak gasket helps, I also have mine at .9 bar for better steam so likely most of that issue. I have four Creminas, my top favorite feature over the Pavoni, hands down is the drip tray!

That said, My gen 1 travel pavoni will overheat too :) . The pavoni heats up fast, light, great machine. I have maybe 15 Pavoni/La Cara/La Graziella

A Faemina from Francesco is on my list to get.

ojt

#19: Post by ojt » Nov 08, 2019, 12:21 pm

As far as I know, the main difference between Pavoni and Cremina regarding temperature management is that Cremina has a heftier grouphead. Probably some other smaller factors too. Not sure about old Creminas vs newer ones though.
Osku

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drgary
Team HB

#20: Post by drgary » Nov 08, 2019, 12:41 pm

Back to the original post, in addition to a lever, I also would recommend upgrading your roaster to the level of the other gear you have. Instead of the choices you listed, what about the Ikawa Pro or the upcoming Kaffelogic Nano? This would be a good step in enjoying your coffee hobby.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!