Would you choose a new La Marzocco GS3 MP or 2011 KVDW Speedster at same price (turns out it's not 2015) - Page 3

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Maak (original poster)

#21: Post by Maak (original poster) »

Does anyone know how to confirm year of speedster manufacture date from machine number (I've asked the seller) it's meant to be purchased 2015 direct from kees, it has no shot timer. Anyone know when that was implimeted?

Anyone have the 2009 version? Does it matter? What are the differences? The kvdw site only has details for the latest 2020 version

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JohnB.
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#22: Post by JohnB. »

Maak wrote:Does anyone know how to confirm year of speedster manufacture date from machine number (I've asked the seller) atis meant to be 2015, it has no shot timer. Anyone know when that was implimeted?

Anyone have the 2009 version? Does it matter? What are the differences? The kvdw site only has details for the latest 2020 version
The serial number gives you the build # (first 3 digits) & the last 4 are the date code. I own #046 built in 09.

Biggest change is the group tunnel size. Early machines have the narrow neck & that 2015 would be a wide neck. The tunnel was enlarged when Kees planned to install a flow meter in the Spirits group tunnel. Never happened but the design change remained. The flat jet can be mounted under the standard Parker 3 way valve base on the 2015 if it isn't already there. Narrow neck machines originally had a standard screw in jet mount inside the group but that moved into the brew boiler water feed line after a couple years. Narrow neck machines use a custom 3 way base so the flat jet isn't an option. With the flat jet the brew gauge will show pressure with free flow out of the group, the early machines won't.

Sealing & electrical attachment arrangement for the heating elements is different on the later machines.

The 09 will have Jumo electronic controllers with the steam boiler controller mounted inside the machine. The Jumo PID for brew holds up fine. Mine is still working after 13 years. The steam boiler controller suffered heat related failures despite Kees developing brackets to move it away from the boiler. Later machines came with Stork Controllers mounted on the front which solved that problem. For the early machines Kees offers a p'stat/srs kit for the steam boiler which I installed in 2015. It's very quiet, allows the same 2.3 bar steam pressure & a very small deadband.

09-10 machines had a Cimbali HX which was prone to corrosion. Kees switched to his own billet stainless hx after I sent him photos of the Cimbali. As with several early improvements Kees sent all owners the upgraded part no charge.

Early 09-10 Speedsters had stainless nuts on the heating element mounting studs. I started to experience some mild galling issues, mentioned it to Kees & everyone received brass nuts to replace them.

While I have the Idro-Matic on my 09 you can only buy the kit for the later wide neck machines. Based on feedback from myself & the other owner that received 1 of the 2 kits sent out before the actual release Kees felt that the install was much too involved to offer a kit for the early machines. At this point there are 3 narrow neck Speedsters with the Idro-Matic as Kees installed one on the original Speedster prototype he has or had in his home.

If you have a choice between an 2009 & a 2015 Speedster buy the 15 unless the 09 is a great deal. I kept up with all the updates & do all my own work. I've talked/emailed many owners of early machines through the installation of upgrades but it's time consuming & you'd pay much more for the parts now even though Kees parts prices are very reasonable unlike LM.
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JohnB.
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#23: Post by JohnB. »

Forgot to mention the shot timer. Kees does offer a kit where the timer mounts at the front of the cup warmer. I have one & I think it looks much better then the one sitting where the steam boiler gauge "used" to be. Does the 2015 still have both gauges?
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Maak (original poster)

#24: Post by Maak (original poster) »

This is the machine number appears to be 1571211 and image



Anything you can tell appreciated

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JohnB.
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#25: Post by JohnB. »

Maak wrote:This is the machine number appears to be 1571211

Anything you can tell appreciated
Well I can tell you it is not a 2015 Speedster. It was built in December of 2011 so it would be an early narrow neck model as the wide neck came out in the early teens when the Spirit was introduced. It would have all of the possible issues I mentioned unless someone has done lots of updates. Is this the one they want new GS3 money for?
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Maak (original poster)

#26: Post by Maak (original poster) »

Yes.

Thanks @JohnB for such detailed responses. Id really hoped for the 2015 model and idro-matic upgrade path as that mechanical way of controll apeals to me so much more than electronic.. I sounds like it might be 2-3k euro to get it up to 2015?

I have 40 yr old lapavoni and the only part thats failed and cant be replaced is the volumetric dosing, which i never use anyway. Pulled such a great shot this morning from it.

Possibly I should just demo all the machines on my list and maybe ill just have to save another $6500 NZD for a new speedster. The market for high end single group machines here is pretty small here. Thats why I was so suprised to see the speedster come up.
Maybe Its still a good machine. This is such a hard decision for a poor artist.

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BaristaBoy E61

#27: Post by BaristaBoy E61 »

You could probably buy it, enjoy it and if you ever sold it not have to take a bath on it either.
"You didn't buy an Espresso Machine - You bought a Chemistry Set!"

Maak (original poster)

#28: Post by Maak (original poster) »

At $10,000 nzd ?

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JohnB.
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#29: Post by JohnB. »

Can you take photos of the machine from both sides with the covers off? Do they have a full service history.?
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JohnB.
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#30: Post by JohnB. »

Maak wrote:At $10,000 nzd ?
That's currently $5800 U.S., a couple grand short of a new GS3, but it's a fair price for a 2011 Speedster in nice condition. The mirror polished bodywork on that Speedster was discontinued by Kees quite a while ago so it is a bit rare. It's also a dust magnet & will show scratches. I have a complete set wrapped up in my shop as my 09 came with 2 sets of bodywork. I prefer the engine turned panels as I'm not an ocd cleaner. Why did the seller think it was a 2015 model?
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