New grinder under $600 budget
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GiraffeNYC
- Posts: 6
- Joined: 7 years ago
First post, all comment & suggestions appreciated - thank you.
After 9 years of service my Breville Infuser BES840XL & Lelit PL53 grinder both seem beyond retirement age. I steadily make two double shots each morning, one for latte, one for americano. A few occasional straight shots of espresso when friends come over for dinner. Stays with the super forgiving Empire Coffee (Hoboken, NJ) house espresso blend, half Mexican Italian Roast, half Brazilian French Roast.
Replacing the Lelit grinder is my first priority. For reasons that beat me, it retains more and more of the grind. I literally knock my knuckles to pulp in order to get the up to 3 grams of grind left inside the machine when I grind two 17 g shots out of it. Additionally, statics is driving me crazy - on a dry day the grind flies all over the countertop, leaving a mess to clean up. I don't really have time nor skills to take consumer grade machinery apart and tinker, so it's time for a replacement.
Replacement budget for grinder and machine together is around $1,200 - $1,300 plus tax. I do want an electric grinder and a volumetric PID espresso machine with a pressure gauge and a steam wand.
Currently, my favorite grinder option is the Bezzera BB005 ($389), followed by a Lelit PL043MMI ($279). I like the design and in particular the stainless steel finish of both, and they fit under my kitchen cabinets (17 inch clearance). I have no problems with the noise. There is room for a more expensive grinder in my budget, but I haven't found any other viable options below say $600.
Regarding the espresso machine, again I haven't found many good volumetric options with PID under around $800. I like the design and functionality of my old Breville Infuser, and don't mind that it takes a couple of minutes to steam a small pitcher of milk, but the pressure has become unstable and now builds up very slowly when I pull a shot, and it's making a harrowing rattling sound at the beginning of each shot. I have replaced pump, miraculously managing to assemble the machine to a working condition, but to no help. As the market looks now, I am considering replacing it with a new version of same model for $569.
My biggest concern right now is how much grind the Bezzera BB005 retains. Are there anybody with experience who may enlighten me here, please?
Again, all suggestions and comments are appreciated - thank you.
After 9 years of service my Breville Infuser BES840XL & Lelit PL53 grinder both seem beyond retirement age. I steadily make two double shots each morning, one for latte, one for americano. A few occasional straight shots of espresso when friends come over for dinner. Stays with the super forgiving Empire Coffee (Hoboken, NJ) house espresso blend, half Mexican Italian Roast, half Brazilian French Roast.
Replacing the Lelit grinder is my first priority. For reasons that beat me, it retains more and more of the grind. I literally knock my knuckles to pulp in order to get the up to 3 grams of grind left inside the machine when I grind two 17 g shots out of it. Additionally, statics is driving me crazy - on a dry day the grind flies all over the countertop, leaving a mess to clean up. I don't really have time nor skills to take consumer grade machinery apart and tinker, so it's time for a replacement.
Replacement budget for grinder and machine together is around $1,200 - $1,300 plus tax. I do want an electric grinder and a volumetric PID espresso machine with a pressure gauge and a steam wand.
Currently, my favorite grinder option is the Bezzera BB005 ($389), followed by a Lelit PL043MMI ($279). I like the design and in particular the stainless steel finish of both, and they fit under my kitchen cabinets (17 inch clearance). I have no problems with the noise. There is room for a more expensive grinder in my budget, but I haven't found any other viable options below say $600.
Regarding the espresso machine, again I haven't found many good volumetric options with PID under around $800. I like the design and functionality of my old Breville Infuser, and don't mind that it takes a couple of minutes to steam a small pitcher of milk, but the pressure has become unstable and now builds up very slowly when I pull a shot, and it's making a harrowing rattling sound at the beginning of each shot. I have replaced pump, miraculously managing to assemble the machine to a working condition, but to no help. As the market looks now, I am considering replacing it with a new version of same model for $569.
My biggest concern right now is how much grind the Bezzera BB005 retains. Are there anybody with experience who may enlighten me here, please?
Again, all suggestions and comments are appreciated - thank you.
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Jeff
- Team HB
- Posts: 6900
- Joined: 19 years ago
I'd consider the Turin DF64 with stock burrs. I believe it is available within a month or so at around $430-470 depending on color. A Baratza Vario would also fit within that budget, even more if you find one refurbished from Baratza or a good used one.
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GiraffeNYC (original poster)
- Posts: 6
- Joined: 7 years ago
Thank you very much for your suggestions, Jeff.
The Turin DF64 certainly looks interesting. That said, having recently been burned with an unserviceable $1,000 Swiss designer toilet, I have a good deal of hesitation related to procuring a new-to-the-market product manufactured by an unknown Chinese company with no proven record of domestic service. Plus, single dosing is not really my cup of coffee.
Baratza Vario clearly is well reviewed, but it appears to have serious statics issues. Quoting from Wired:
I realize my budget does not allow me to insist on perfection, but that is one issue I'd rather be without.
Thank you again!
The Turin DF64 certainly looks interesting. That said, having recently been burned with an unserviceable $1,000 Swiss designer toilet, I have a good deal of hesitation related to procuring a new-to-the-market product manufactured by an unknown Chinese company with no proven record of domestic service. Plus, single dosing is not really my cup of coffee.
Baratza Vario clearly is well reviewed, but it appears to have serious statics issues. Quoting from Wired:
When you move with the grounds bin to pour the grounds out or just gently tap it to get the last bits to fall, grounds can be spread like stardust across your countertop, bread box, and butter tray
I realize my budget does not allow me to insist on perfection, but that is one issue I'd rather be without.
Thank you again!
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Jeff
- Team HB
- Posts: 6900
- Joined: 19 years ago
I understand your concerns around long-term serviceability. As you balance things out, I'm of the opinion that almost all home-intended grinders from the old-school manufacturers are designed to be disposable, not serviceable. Compared to the shop grinders that these manufacturers make, a home-use grinder experiences "no" wear. Baratza is a notable exception, having a history of supporting self-service.
Static is pretty much part of grinding coffee, as far as I can tell. Some machines more, some less. The ones that are in the "less" category seem to also have a long path for grinds, and comparatively high retention. "RDT" or the "scant drop of water trick" can help if your local conditions are favorable for excess static. Personally, I'd rather deal with a bit of static and noticeably better coffee than mediocre coffee and less static.
At least for me and my cup or two or medium or light-roast coffee at a time, I'd much rather have a good-quality, espresso-capable hand grinder over any of the electrics less capable than the DF64. With dark roasts, the difference may be less noticeable.
You might look at the Eureka models. If you're willing to take the risks of purchasing from a European vendor ("gray market"), I understand that they are available at a more affordable price.
Static is pretty much part of grinding coffee, as far as I can tell. Some machines more, some less. The ones that are in the "less" category seem to also have a long path for grinds, and comparatively high retention. "RDT" or the "scant drop of water trick" can help if your local conditions are favorable for excess static. Personally, I'd rather deal with a bit of static and noticeably better coffee than mediocre coffee and less static.
At least for me and my cup or two or medium or light-roast coffee at a time, I'd much rather have a good-quality, espresso-capable hand grinder over any of the electrics less capable than the DF64. With dark roasts, the difference may be less noticeable.
You might look at the Eureka models. If you're willing to take the risks of purchasing from a European vendor ("gray market"), I understand that they are available at a more affordable price.
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GiraffeNYC (original poster)
- Posts: 6
- Joined: 7 years ago
Excellent considerations, Jeff, both in terms of serviceability and about static vs. retention - thanks.
After looking online, I'm beginning to warm up to the Baratza Vario+ ... right at the top of my price range, and with the history of Baratza and nice reviews ... what's not to like.
After looking online, I'm beginning to warm up to the Baratza Vario+ ... right at the top of my price range, and with the history of Baratza and nice reviews ... what's not to like.
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Jeff
- Team HB
- Posts: 6900
- Joined: 19 years ago
You might watch Buy/Sell here, EAF, Craigslist, Facebook, as well as https://www.baratza.com/shop/refurb The refurbs from Baratza that I've gotten in the past have been clean and excellent quality. You do need to check the refurb page regularly as they tend to get sold rather quickly.
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cmin
- Posts: 1385
- Joined: 12 years ago
DF64 is a static nightmare here in FL, the Varios are actually less ( it both need RDT). Hell Monolith Flat is a static monster as well. I have a DF64 I got to play with, imo the Varios are still better in the cup and better single dose grinders, flip flap in the chute and they are flawless single doser (used like that for like 10 years). DF is wonky, have to use bellow, you have to cut out the declumper otherwise it causes building up and re-grinding of fines/dust. After grinding dose, still have to hit the below as there is some grinds and "dust" left latter you don't want in thr OF so clear out before next shot, don't have that issue with Vario. You do have SSP options but that depends on brew style, imo the ceramic burr in Vario slaps the stock steel in DF64. One easily noticeable difference is the body is noticeably thinner on stock DF even aligned like mine, and SSPs only get thinner from there in body.GiraffeNYC wrote:Thank you very much for your suggestions, Jeff.
The Turin DF64 certainly looks interesting. That said, having recently been burned with an unserviceable $1,000 Swiss designer toilet, I have a good deal of hesitation related to procuring a new-to-the-market product manufactured by an unknown Chinese company with no proven record of domestic service. Plus, single dosing is not really my cup of coffee.
Baratza Vario clearly is well reviewed, but it appears to have serious statics issues. Quoting from Wired:
I realize my budget does not allow me to insist on perfection, but that is one issue I'd rather be without.
Thank you again!
The new Vario+ has basically Forte internals and can be aligned easier than before. I don't see any advantage with DF unless someone really wanted a specific style (like turbo shots which I don't like) with SSPs.
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GiraffeNYC (original poster)
- Posts: 6
- Joined: 7 years ago
Whoa, that is so good info. Florida (= high humidity, right?) and excessive statics? 
Ouch!
Ouch!-
cmin
- Posts: 1385
- Joined: 12 years ago
Yeah I don't know why some think humidity (like FL) = no or shouldn't have static. Not my experience all these years, static like a mofo here in South FL. Try using DF64 w/o RDT, grinds will go all over, in the PF, outside the PF, sticking all over the outside of chute and grinder. Than when you hit bellow makes it worse as it'll blow fines out like dust everywhere and some comes out the top of the cap on the below lol. Really they all need RDT, even Vario and Monolith.
I know everyone's hopping on all these new sub 1k single dose grinders, but especially with the Vario have metal internals now (it's essentially a cheaper Forte now) and aligning ability w/o hyper aligning, that's really tough to beat for the $. They have small chambers and tiny chutes so when you flip the flap, it's spot on single dosing like to .1g over and over, did that for years and years. I even used over my HG1 and modded Pharos although also b;c hand grinding isn't for me lol
I know everyone's hopping on all these new sub 1k single dose grinders, but especially with the Vario have metal internals now (it's essentially a cheaper Forte now) and aligning ability w/o hyper aligning, that's really tough to beat for the $. They have small chambers and tiny chutes so when you flip the flap, it's spot on single dosing like to .1g over and over, did that for years and years. I even used over my HG1 and modded Pharos although also b;c hand grinding isn't for me lol
