New espresso machine with $1500 budget

December 8th, 2018, 9:21 pm

Hey guys.

I was hoping to get some advice on buying a new espresso machine.
Currently I have been using a De'Longhi Dedica 680 machine for a few years. The espresso that comes out is kinda drinkable but it tastes nothing like restaurant/cafe espresso. I have tried different beans, grinds, etc on the machine without much variation in the final product. I am looking to upgrade my machine, I have a few questions below that I hope you can help me with:

A few facts about my preferences
-I only drink black espresso. I don't like lattes or cappuccinos so a dual boiler would be superfluous.
-I am an espresso novice and would prefer an automatic machine that doesn't require too much maintenance or work per shot
-I prioritize taste, water heating speed, and durability over aesthetics and brand name.

1) I want a home machine that can produce close-to-restaurant quality espresso. Is this possible on a budget of 1.5k? If so, what is a good brand. (More for less is better obviously)

2) online reviews seem to praise the Breville 870XL, does anyone have any experience with this? How good is it? What about the ECM Classika?

3) Does anyone absolutely love their De'Longhi Dedica 680 and know how to squeeze amazing espresso out of it?

Thanks!

#2: Post by **mlunsford27** » December 8th, 2018, 9:24 pm

If you only drink black espresso, Carola by Quickmill is an affordable machine that seems well built. It has a brew group but no steam system. There are some detailed reviews on it on this site. Might want to look into it because it will be good bang for the buck if you really only make espresso (it is $900 new from Chris coffee)

#3: Post by **GregoryJ** » December 9th, 2018, 1:06 am

What kind of grinder do you have?

With a good grinder and a simple lever machine you can make excellent espresso.

It may seem like a dual boiler is a waste, but they tend to have more features than single boiler units, so the purpose of getting one is not always just to steam milk.

December 9th, 2018, 3:39 pm

Thanks for replying. I have an Oxo Conical burr grinder. It seemed to have good reviews.
Any recommendations for lever machines? Are they hard to use/learn?

December 9th, 2018, 3:46 pm

At this point, you have a choice. Do you take the blue pill or the red pill?

#6: Post by **GregoryJ** » December 9th, 2018, 4:24 pm

CaffeineNepenthe wrote:Thanks for replying. I have an Oxo Conical burr grinder. It seemed to have good reviews.

Espresso grinders tend to be a little more demanding, and thus more expensive. Some features that people like on espresso grinders are:
- Good adjustability. If the grinder has large steps it will be hard and in some cases impossible to find the grind that optimizes an extraction. You will have to play with dose at the same time for the best flavor.
- Low retention. The grinder should not keep much stale coffee left in its chute otherwise you will be brewing with stale grounds, or using up coffee to get rid of them.
- Low clumping. This will make it easier to get an even distribution of grinds in the basket.

The entry level of electric espresso grinders starts around $300 to $600. Some models to look at are Baratza Sette 270, Baratza Vario, Ceado E5P, Niche Zero.

You can also get a manual, hand-cranked grinder for cheaper. However, the fineness of espresso grinds can take some force, and is not what everyone wants to do first thing in the morning. Some models to look at are Orphan Espresso Lido, Orphan Espresso Pharos, Kinu M47.

CaffeineNepenthe wrote:Any recommendations for lever machines? Are they hard to use/learn?

The newest non-electric (you add your own hot water) levers are called the Flair and Cafelat Robot. (there are very long "user experience" threads on both of those machines on HB). I used the Flair for a while, and it can produce a great espresso. The learning curve is pretty quick, but I found the best tasting shots I was pushing pretty hard, probably harder than the recommended 40 lbs. Eventually I opted for an electric pump machine for the convenience, and having a milk frother is nice if you have any guests or family who might prefer a latte. I was using a manual grinder and manual espresso machine, which got old pretty quickly for me, but some people would love the pride of doing everything by hand, and at 50% cheaper or less than an electrified setup. I'm just trying to say, your options are wide open with your budget and desire for the best quality per dollar for espresso only.

#7: Post by **guydebord** » December 10th, 2018, 11:48 pm

You can definitely make better espresso than 99.9% of restaurants and cafes out there. This is one of the bad things about owning and knowing how to use a proper grinder and espresso machine, you seldom enjoy coffee outside of your home...

If I were you, I would split your budget on a new grinder, I recommend the Eureka Silenzio ($479) over the Baratza Sette ($399) but both will work perfectly for your new machine. The one you have is pretty much useless for espresso, I would save it for French press and pour overs.

For a machine, a single boiler with a saturated or e61 group with PID would be more than perfect for your needs, look into the Quick Mill Silvano Evo, Lelit Victoria and Bezzera Unica.

Remember, you also need some money for a good solid tamper, tamper mat, knock box and a scale.

Good luck!

December 11th, 2018, 1:45 am

Thanks so much for the advice!

One of the other commenters (thanks!) recommended the Quick Mill Carola. I've been eyeing that thing for the last few days with lust in my heart. Slim profile, respected brand, e61 grouphead, affordable price. For someone like me who is interested in espresso only and doesn't care there is no steam wand, are there any disadvantages to getting the Carola which is only 900 compared to some of the 1100-1400 machines you mentioned? I was hoping to have something left for a new grinder.

I've been meaning to ask why is a tamp so important? Sorry if I sound ignorant but wouldn't a cheap plastic one be just as good at flattening out grounds?

December 11th, 2018, 1:59 am

GregoryJ wrote:Espresso grinders tend to be a little more demanding, and thus more expensive. Some features that people like on espresso grinders are:
- Good adjustability. If the grinder has large steps it will be hard and in some cases impossible to find the grind that optimizes an extraction. You will have to play with dose at the same time for the best flavor.
- Low retention. The grinder should not keep much stale coffee left in its chute otherwise you will be brewing with stale grounds, or using up coffee to get rid of them.
- Low clumping. This will make it easier to get an even distribution of grinds in the basket.

The entry level of electric espresso grinders starts around $300 to $600. Some models to look at are Baratza Sette 270, Baratza Vario, Ceado E5P, Niche Zero.

You can also get a manual, hand-cranked grinder for cheaper. However, the fineness of espresso grinds can take some force, and is not what everyone wants to do first thing in the morning. Some models to look at are Orphan Espresso Lido, Orphan Espresso Pharos, Kinu M47.

The newest non-electric (you add your own hot water) levers are called the Flair and Cafelat Robot. (there are very long "user experience" threads on both of those machines on HB). I used the Flair for a while, and it can produce a great espresso. The learning curve is pretty quick, but I found the best tasting shots I was pushing pretty hard, probably harder than the recommended 40 lbs. Eventually I opted for an electric pump machine for the convenience, and having a milk frother is nice if you have any guests or family who might prefer a latte. I was using a manual grinder and manual espresso machine, which got old pretty quickly for me, but some people would love the pride of doing everything by hand, and at 50% cheaper or less than an electrified setup. I'm just trying to say, your options are wide open with your budget and desire for the best quality per dollar for espresso only.

Thank you for your reply and for the list of grinders. I will check them out.

A part of me is really attracted to the level set up. I can see myself tinkering with it and it seems to offer another dimension of freedom over the final product. It kind of reminds me of how I sometimes imagine how liberating it would be to buy a log cabin, return to nature and live off the land. It works great for some people but in reality it's just not me. I know myself and at 5am, when I'm scrambling for work, I just want to push a button.

Out of curiosity what is your home espresso set up?

#10: Post by **GregoryJ** » December 11th, 2018, 10:04 am

I cannot comment on the Carola (besides that it looks cool!), I have not used any E61 machines. I currently have a Crossland CC1 and Sette 270 grinder, and I have a couple of new pieces of gear in the mail... Breville Dual Boiler and Niche Zero should be here shortly!

The tamper doesn't make a huge difference, but it will feel like a much better experience with just a simple metal tamper. Over time, I think you may develop preferences for your tamper. Most machines and grinders only have 1 color option, but there are an incredible amount of tamper choices, so it's also a chance to buy something unique