New espresso machine - my final decision points

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
goalerjones
Posts: 219
Joined: 7 years ago

#1: Post by goalerjones »

I'm close to getting a new machine. Of course, like an onion, the more you learn from researching, the more questions are raised. Issues for me include:

Machine internal spacing: if the wires are close to the brew/steam boilers will that shorten their lives?

Brew pressure adjustment valve: is this something I will need to access on a regular basis, or just in the beginning when I initially get the new machine? Taking the back of some machines off to access is obviously harder than others. My current machine has no pressure gauge, so I don't have to deal with it.

Tubing construction: how short a life can I expect under daily use for Teflon tubing? I'll probably get 10-20 years use based upon my age out of any machine I get. So if spending a bit more now on a solid "German" machine will save me headache, I'd consider that necessary now.

SS vs Copper/Brass boilers for leaching: and I can throw brass rotary pumps in there too, what's the real danger for this being a real concern?

Rotary vs Vibe pumps for both noise and longevity: I know Vibe pumps have a shorter life, but how much shorter? And has the reduction in noise alone made someone say, "so glad I paid extra for that"?

malling
Posts: 2935
Joined: 13 years ago

#2: Post by malling »

Prosumer machines are relatively cramped inside so the temperature variance inside is relatively small, the wires used is also easily replaceable and relatively cheep to replace, and I haven't seen any serious issues or longvity issues with those that placed the wires in close up to the boilers. The boilers are also isolated today so it is less of an issue.

The placement of pumps and other expensive parts is of a higher importence, these should not be placed in such a way that leaks will damage them, eg. Preferably no motor under boilers, pumps etc. These should also be placed in the colder areas of the machines to prolong longevity.

Easy access to the tank, brew pump adjustment and drains is also more important. You're aren't going to change the pressure very often, but it's nice if you don't have to take off the entire chassis every time.

Not that familiar with the lifespan of teflon tubing, but had a machine where these where approximately 5 years, but obviously these aren't going to last as long, the 5 years old tuping in mine where in okay conditions, but I did at that time consider changing them within a few years back then (Vivaldi), but some of those with older machines might give you a more precise answer.

Leeching is a not worth your concern, the amount that might end up in your cup, is so small that it shouldn't influence on your health. SS can also leech under the right circumstances. Besides more and more machines with brass and copper boilers are threated so leeching is less of a concern. Also remember that Italiens have been consuming numerous shots every day for decades, they live longer than the rest of us!

vibe pumps are anything but long lasting, after a few years of use these should be replaced (sometimes after a couple of years), but it is easy and not very expensive to do so. Rotary pumps can last for many years, how many really depend on how you treat them!

And yes a Rotary vane pump is allot more quiet but also allot harder and more expensive to replace!

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Yukonista
Posts: 45
Joined: 7 years ago

#3: Post by Yukonista »

My$.02:
Machine internal spacing: I think any reputable manufactures internals are well laid out so this shouldn't really be a concern. Look for a machine that has decent insulation on the boiler(s). Im not a fan of the sheets of f/glass zip tied on that some builders use.

Brew pressure adjustment valve: Depends on whether a vibe. or rot.pump. Getting inside to mess with the bypass/expansion valve to +/- the brew pressure on a vibe pump is a pain. Most vibe machines seem to come pretty close to 9bar, so set it and leave it. Of course, the nice thing about a rotary is that typically they are pretty accessible for pressure adjustment.

Tubing construction: I don't believe any of the major builders use Teflon or plastic tubes in any critical areas. Having said that, PEX type plastics last forever, so just because you see some non-metallic piping doesn't necessarily mean its not appropriate to use.

SS vs Copper/Brass boilers for leaching: Well, as the previous post rightly states, this isn't that much of a concern. SS boilers are nice, but their advantage is moot. I suspect most non-ferrous parts will be low lead.

Rotary vs Vibe pumps for both noise and longevity: In my experience, with HX machines and vibe pumps, you have to jack the boiler pressure right up to get adequate steaming performance. This leads to longer cooling shots through the group, and more wear and tear on the vibe pump (which have short duty cycles). I killed the last one in a year and a half. That was the major reason I changed to a dual boiler/rotary machine. The noise wasn't a big deal with the vibe, but the rotary is MUCH quieter.

Honestly, I think the best way to make a decision is to define your price point, find a reputable dealer, and follow their recommendations. There are so many very good machines out that you can end up chasing your tail.

Tanax
Posts: 200
Joined: 9 years ago

#4: Post by Tanax »

Feel free to use my spreadsheet to compare different technical specifications between various machines: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

yyacoob
Posts: 23
Joined: 7 years ago

#5: Post by yyacoob »

Earlier this year I faced a similar dilemma between vibe/rotary (after owning a vibe machine for 13 years). Ended up with ECM Technica profi which is a rotary machine. Amazingly quiet, and hooked it up to the water line (for the first time!). Both turned out to exceed the anticipated benefit of the couple hundred dollars difference between vibe/rotary. Also in my case, double boiler didn't make sense since we are nearly 100% espresso makers. HX is perfectly fine.

goalerjones (original poster)
Posts: 219
Joined: 7 years ago

#6: Post by goalerjones (original poster) »

Final decision has been made! QuickMill Vetrano 2B Evo will be here in a week. After all the research it came down to build quality, price point (got a great deal from Joe at Espresso Outlet), and really digging in to find out what I did and didn't want in my life each morning.

The BellaBarista PDF that I found on the IZZO Duetto vs QM Vetrano thread weighed in heavily on my confidence that I would be getting a great machine. And a sincere thanks to all of you who patiently waded thru all the questions.

biketo
Posts: 78
Joined: 7 years ago

#7: Post by biketo »

+1 for DaveC's in-depth article(s) at BellaBarista. It really helped me be comfortable with my final purchase decision. I've had my Vetrano now for almost four months of daily use with nary a hiccup.

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r7
Posts: 231
Joined: 8 years ago

#8: Post by r7 replying to biketo »

+1 squared. I am also a big fan of DaveC reviews.