Hand grinding might be simple and reliable, but isn't necessarily most beginner's idea of "easy" but it does depend on the motivation, especially when dialling in... though in comparison to learning good espresso I'd probably put it in the easy basket, too!

When I first got into home espresso, I was using a Breville machine in the $300 range and a Starbucks burr grinder. The machine used a pressurized portafilter so I didn't know the grinder was subpar for espresso. I was also using Starbucks beans. Believe it or not, I was quite happy with my results. I only upgraded to a Silvia when the machine died after about 4 years. Then I loved Silvia but realized my grinder couldn't make a fine enough grind. I bought a B Vario. Once again I was happy for 3 years. Then I needed faster steaming and a double boiler. I bought the Profitec. Then I realized my B Vario wasn't consistent so I got a K30 Vario. And here I am today.

Moral of the story is that espresso satisfaction, like beauty, is purely in the eyes of the beholder. I truly was happy back in the days of my Breville pressurized portafilter and Starbucks grinder days. You may be perfectly happy as well before the natural evolution and upgraditis take hold. In hindsight, there is no question that my drinks today are far superior to those I made back when I started out. But what did I know then ?

I guess many people (even on this forum) have started with a setup like a Gaggia Classic/Gaggia Pure and an Ascaso i-mini grinder and been quite happy with them for years.
But I guess nobody would want to go back to that once having upgraded, but for an entry level combo it should work decently.

I wouldn't know how you can fit it in your budget (if buying new) since I wouldn't know much of the prices in US.
A hand grinder like Lido E would probably save you some money (and provide you with better coffee), but if hand grinder is not an option, then something like an Ascaso could be tolerable.

Just make sure you don't use a pressurized filter basket and use only good quality fresh beans and you'll have way better coffee than Starbucks (just don't buy your beans from them) once you'll learn how to use your machine properly. The thing with these cheaper machines is that they often have some quirks and thus make the learning curve a little steeper.

I appreciate everyone's input, thank you very much. It certainly seems like the grinder matters a whole lot more than the machine so I will take that into account and reassess what I wanted there. I did a bit of research on the Lido hand grinder and it does seem like something that will work for me and I actually like the idea of doing a bit more work by hand. I will try and find a place where I could demo some equipment, I wasn't aware that was a possibility.

I also will do a bit of research on beans, I didn't get that far. I was planning on just using Starbucks Espresso Roast since I know I like it.

Is it acceptable to store beans in the grinder for a few days or should you always remove them to an air tight container between grinds?

Glad you found the advice here helpful

Nice thing with selecting a coffee is, of course, that you're not locked in by an initial purchase. You can try something new anytime you like. The very best flavor comes from coffee that's been roasted quite recently. You can always look around for a micro-roaster cafe and try out what they have to offer. If you want a more economical way to get fresh coffee, and don't mind doing some learning, you can roast your coffee at home. Take a look at www.sweetmarias.com for more information there. The stovetop starter kit has all you need to get you going, besides some basic kitchen items like a stove and large steel mixing bowl. When you look at their prices, keep in mind that coffee loses wight as it's roasted, so a $6 pound of green beans ends up costing more like $9 a pound roasted. One thing to think about if all this gets your interest, is that it may be a bit overwhelming to take on both this and espresso making at once. It's much easier to tell how home roasts turned out by tasting them as brewed coffee.

If you choose a hand grinder, you'll find it doesn't make sense to store beans in the hopper. As far as I know, everyone using these adds beans for one round and grinds until it's empty. If you're using an electric grinder with a hopper, you can do it either way, although it may not grind as well without the weight of the beans on top. If you like dark roasts, turning a hand grinder is especially easy because the beans are softer. One thing to be aware of is that you can get a lot of static, more so with dark roasted coffees. This will happen on electric and hand grinders, but probably noticed more with hand grinders. A lot of us like to spray or drip a small amount of water on our coffee (only what is to be ground immediately) before grinding it to dissipate static.

Rayme wrote:I appreciate everyone's input, thank you very much. It certainly seems like the grinder matters a whole lot more than the machine so I will take that into account and reassess what I wanted there. I did a bit of research on the Lido hand grinder and it does seem like something that will work for me and I actually like the idea of doing a bit more work by hand. I will try and find a place where I could demo some equipment, I wasn't aware that was a possibility.

I also will do a bit of research on beans, I didn't get that far. I was planning on just using Starbucks Espresso Roast since I know I like it.

Is it acceptable to store beans in the grinder for a few days or should you always remove them to an air tight container between grinds?

Yes, the grinder is key! Take this from someone who has tried the hard way. For the price, the lido is fantastic compared to an electric with similar burrs. With the lido it will make better espresso with any machine you choose. I use one daily with a la Pavoni or our Cremina. You will likely upgrade a few machines before you need to change from the lido. Also you liking of darker roasts will make for easier hand grinding.

spearfish25 wrote:Moral of the story is that espresso satisfaction, like beauty, is purely in the eyes of the beholder. I truly was happy back in the days of my Breville pressurized portafilter and Starbucks grinder days. You may be perfectly happy as well before the natural evolution and upgraditis take hold. In hindsight, there is no question that my drinks today are far superior to those I made back when I started out. But what did I know then ?

Well said. Espresso is an aesthetic experience (in addition to the buzz, which can enhance aesthetics). The experience begins with grinding and ends with an empty cup. In between there are multiple factors that influence one's satisfaction, only one of which is the taste of the espresso.

Plenty of people start out with budgets of $2000 for their first setup, and that's cool if you've got the cash. Plenty more start out at $500 or below and are thoroughly satisfied for years. I'm one of the latter - I've got $500 invested in my kit, have been using it for years, and loving it more every day.

So just go for it and enjoy the ride.

PC

Rayme wrote: I was planning on just using Starbucks Espresso Roast since I know I like it.

Is it acceptable to store beans in the grinder for a few days or should you always remove them to an air tight container between grinds?

Two things that will really help. First, stop buying Starbucks. Go online and order espresso blends from Blue Bottle, Intelligentsia, Verve or Klatch. They're just the tip of the iceberg and the list of great roasters is nearly endless. Your espresso taste appreciation will never be the same.

Second and quite relevant when you start mail ordering coffee with the associated time delay, roasted beans tend to be best from AROUND day 5 to day 15. It's highly variable for the bean/blend/roast. After that time, it becomes stale. I initially just ordered frequent small amounts and tried to use a bag in a week or two. The problem is it was always stale by the end and the shipping costs stunk. I then started buying a bunch of coffee online at once and freezing it in little mason jars (~80g/jar). They do great in the freezer and I thaw a jar a day before I use it. I taste no drop off in flavor even weeks after freezing the beans and now I have an endless supply of fresh coffee just waiting to be thawed and ground. Whenever I get to the last layer of coffee jars in the freezer, I place a new order for a bunch of whatever I want to try or like at the moment.

Rayme wrote:Between my wife and I we spend roughly $100 a month at Starbucks. I'd also prefer a latte every day rather than coffee on the days we don't go so that's a nice bonus. We are also not very "picky" when it comes to coffee/espresso. I'm prepared to take time to learn. I've decided on both the Breville Duo Temp Pro and the Capresso Infinity Burr Grinder. Both seem to be "entry-level".

With that set-up, you're going to be out $500 and find yourself right back at Starbucks to the tune of $100 a month. I would spend the $500 on something useful and just settle for Starbucks.

Rayme wrote:I was planning on just using Starbucks Espresso Roast since I know I like it.

Is it acceptable to store beans in the grinder for a few days or should you always remove them to an air tight container between grinds?

These can't be real questions from somebody who claims to have been researching espresso for a few weeks now, right?