Need some help buying an espresso machine, budget $4000

#1: Post by **savagebrood** » June 3rd, 2023, 4:16 pm

Hey everyone,

I'm looking to upgrade my current espresso machine and need some advice. I've got a budget of $4000 and don't mind buying used, as long as it's in decent condition.

My current setup is a flair 58 and a Ceado e37s which I absolutely love.

What I care about most is getting great tasting espresso every time, and a machine that isn't going to die on me after a few years. I'm okay with it being a bit tricky to use if that means better espresso.

If you've got any suggestions, could you let me know why you like that machine and if there are any downsides? Also, if you've got any tips for buying used, that would be super helpful.

Thanks in advance!

#2: Post by **BaristaBoy E61** » June 3rd, 2023, 6:12 pm

I always recommend this read:

Choosing an Espresso Machine Rationally

June 3rd, 2023, 7:37 pm

This was written before La Marzocco mic-dropped with the Micra.

#4: Post by **mrgnomer** » June 3rd, 2023, 8:34 pm

Commercial group lever. I have a Bezzera Strega Top. I've never used a Flair 58 but have two springless levers. Used to use an E61 HX rotary pump plumb in. When it was down for a rebuild the springless levers were the daily machines. I got to like the lever control and extraction quality to the point I didn't really want to go back to an E61 pump.

What I like about the Strega Top...

It's a hybrid heat exchanger with a vibe pump that can be used for extraction. Or not. It has a heated group for fast heating and temperature stability. It's totally hands on with extraction control capabilities my E61 didn't have. It consistently makes really good espresso with back to back shot capability, strong steam, endless plumb in water supply and HX temp surfing. It also doesn't need backflushing, the group and showerscreen stays really clean and it's easy to maintain.

It also has a solid copper boiler. I personally prefer copper.

The group is also 58mm which is a bonus if you have a lot of 58mm tools.

What I don't really like...

It uses a vibe pump. Rotary is quieter, smoother and can be pressure output adjusted. Strega pulls with springs so the vibe pump output isn't a big deal but it's still a pressure fluctuating vibe.

The plumb in over ride adapting makes my boiler refill call a bit finicky. It sometimes takes a while to kick in on my machine. Not a problem for me since I hardly make Americanos. I flush water out of the boiler every now and again just to test the refill.

The stock Top machine uses a Sirai style pressurestat, not PID. The group heater is a fixed temperature thermostat also not PID adjustable.

It has some other what is probably cost saving features A chromed plastic grouphead top, plastic knobs and handles, only one boiler pressure gauge.

All in all it's a good machine made by a company that's been designing, producing parts and assembling their machines in house for many years.

June 5th, 2023, 3:52 pm

What do yall think of a machine like this? Would be way under budget.

[FS] Izzo Alex Duetto III

June 5th, 2023, 5:29 pm

That's a super deal!
You can't lose and won't do better for the money!
I'd be on it NOW !

#7: Post by **BaristaBoy E61** » June 6th, 2023, 12:02 am

BaristaBoy E61 wrote:I always recommend this read:

Choosing an Espresso Machine Rationally

flyingtoaster wrote:This was written before La Marzocco mic-dropped with the Micra.

How does that change anything for the purchaser that wants line-level preinfusion or flow control out of the box when the LM Micra seems to offer none?

The ubiquitous E61 is the analogue turntable of espresso. It will still be with us after many others have come and gone.

#8: Post by **Lindamar** » June 6th, 2023, 12:34 am

I'm biased toward ecm as I have a synchronika and like it a lot. Probably the most solid e61 machine and fits in your budget. That used machine you posted is 10 years old, but probably not bad for the price assuming everything's in order. However I will admit the LM Micra would've been very tempting had it existed when I bought my machine.

#9: Post by **flyingtoaster** » June 6th, 2023, 1:53 am

BaristaBoy E61 wrote: How does that change anything for the purchaser that wants line-level preinfusion or flow control out of the box when the LM Micra seems to offer none?

The ubiquitous E61 is the analogue turntable of espresso. It will still be with us after many others have come and gone.

The original poster did not mention line-level pre infusion, though it's supported by the machine and many owners easily plumbed theirs. Or are you talking about how the plumbing kit doesn't literally come in the box? He also didn't mention flow control.

Some people see an espresso machine as a check-list of features, rather than something that "gets great espresso every time." For the former, the E61 will always be around. For others, the 5 minute warmup time, +/- 1C temperature stability and results in-cup of the Micra are very compelling for a sub $4K machine.

#10: Post by **Randy G.** » June 6th, 2023, 11:45 am

savagebrood wrote:What do yall think of a machine like this? Would be way under budget.

[FS] Izzo Alex Duetto III

That does look like a very good deal and allows for an investment in a very high end grinder as well!