flyingtoaster wrote:The original poster did not mention line-level pre infusion, though it's supported by the machine and many owners easily plumbed theirs. Or are you talking about how the plumbing kit doesn't literally come in the box? He also didn't mention flow control.

Some people see an espresso machine as a check-list of features, rather than something that "gets great espresso every time." For the former, the E61 will always be around. For others, the 5 minute warmup time, +/- 1C temperature stability and results in-cup of the Micra are very compelling for a sub $4K machine.

The OP doesn't have to mention direct plumbed or preinfusion. They or anyone else reading might not know about it or think it important at this stage for their consideration - But it might become important at a later date.

When I think about the best shots I've ever had, regardless of where, they've all had one thing in common. They were made on machines that had great preinfusion capabilities, be they rotary pump or lever group machines.

The LM Micra does not offer this capability (out of the box) - even if it can be direct plumbed. This is something the purchaser should be aware of before purchase.

My experience is that great espresso has a lot to do with preinfusion; this is an understatement of a quintessential espresso making element. It would be a pity to invest so much money in a machine only to realize preinfusion can only be accomplished through modifications that might be beyond the owner's capabilities.

For this reason, I would much prefer the 2nd hand Alex Duetto III over the LM Micra or any other machine that did not offer directed plumbed & drained along with preinfusion - regardless of brand name or price. For anyone feeling it's not an important feature that's fine and for each individual to determine for themselves - as long as they know and understand this before hand. For me, I'd be out!

For the OP, the 2nd hand Alex Duetto III and a Kafatek grinder, new or 2nd hand, would be a much better deal for the money that the LM Micra alone would set them back, not to mention quality and range of versatility in the cup.

Caveat Emptor!

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to give you all a quick shout-out for the awesome advice and tips you've been dishing out. Seriously, you've helped me out a ton.

After mulling it over, I've decided to go with the used Alex. I think it'll be a pretty solid choice for what I need right now. It will be my first rotary pump machine and a dual boiler. I'm pretty excited to own it.

As for my grinder, I'm sticking with the Ceado e37s. That bad boy hasn't let me down yet, and I reckon it'll make a good team with the Alex.

I'm stoked to see how this turns out and I'm definitely gonna keep you all posted. This forum rocks and I've learned heaps from you guys.

Cheers for all the help, folks. Can't wait to pull my next shot!

That's a great and sensible choice Josh. Glad to hear that. Keep in mind that non-scaling water is crucial to developing fewer problems. Direct plumbing and draining will also make the biggest difference in your enjoyment and cup satisfaction. If at all possible, that would be the second thing to do after a non-scaling water supply.

Also keep in mind that there is awesome help on this forum for any problem you might have with this machine. That I know 1st hand. There's also Chris' Coffee tech support that are also just wonderful people to deal with for anything.

Best of luck & keep us posted. I'd like to hear how it goes.

BaristaBoy E61 wrote: When I think about the best shots I've ever had, regardless of where, they've all had one thing in common. They were made on machines that had great preinfusion capabilities, be they rotary pump or lever group machines.

My experience is that great espresso has a lot to do with preinfusion; this is an understatement of a quintessential espresso making element. It would be a pity to invest so much money in a machine only to realize preinfusion can only be accomplished through modifications that might be beyond the owner's capabilities.

+1

Hi all,

I'm also looking for a machine in a similar budget range. Currently looking at the Micra, ECM Synchronika or perhaps a Rocket R60v.
Thought I'd post here given that there have already been may threads in this budget range.
Was wondering if you guys would have any insights as to the added value of apps or other digital interfaces and the temperature stability of the Micra?

Niels wrote:Hi all,

I'm also looking for a machine in a similar budget range. Currently looking at the Micra, ECM Synchronika or perhaps a Rocket R60v.
Was wondering if you guys would have any insights as to the added value of apps or other digital interfaces and the temperature stability of the Micra?

Welcome to HB Niels

I would suggest adding the Izzo Alex Duetto IV Plus to your list as I feel it has the best feature set of all the DB E61 machines.

I personally see little value in Apps or digital interfaces.

YMMV

I found the Micra to be astoundingly forgiving for classic espresso. it did a good job with coffees like Tim Wendelboe "filter" and lighter with the pressure dropped to 6 bars or so. I felt the light-roast results were limited by the lack of extraction profiling. There's a write-up here by Jake G on how he has modified it for extraction profiling.

BaristaBoy E61 wrote:Welcome to HB Niels

I would suggest adding the Izzo Alex Duetto IV Plus to your list as I feel it has the best feature set of all the DB E61 machines.

I personally see little value in Apps or digital interfaces.

YMMV

Thanks for the welcome & suggestion! I feel the same way about apps and digital interfaces, if at all possible I would avoid them.

I really like Marzocco's design and would also seriously consider a Mini if I would be able to find one, but I am also highly enthused by most DB E61 machines.

Jeff wrote:I found the Micra to be astoundingly forgiving for classic espresso. it did a good job with coffees like Tim Wendelboe "filter" and lighter with the pressure dropped to 6 bars or so. I felt the light-roast results were limited by the lack of extraction profiling. There's a write-up here by Jake G on how he has modified it for extraction profiling.

Thanks, I have seen the threads discussing the modification of the Micra.

Looking at other options like the Decent I think it'd would be better to say I'm looking for the highest quality machine with easily serviceable maintenance, as opposed to machines with a wide feature set and digital interfaces.

I would take a Micra over a Mini in a hearbeat. Between the Micra's size and its forgiveness, I would only consider the Mini at this time if I were doing catering or running a small bakery or cafe.

The La Marzocco apps suck, unless La Marzocco has improved them drastically from winter when I tested the Micra. Thankfully about the only thing you need to do with them is to adjust the temperature and the length of the line-level preinfusion. For me, that isn't enough of a reason not to buy the Micra.

That's very insightful, thanks. I'm still hesitant and scouring the second hand market for other Marzocco machines.
Also seeing if something else with a saturated grouphead pops up.
I'm still very much open to suggestions and I'll do some more reading on the Micra.
I put in an offer of 2800 for a second hand Mini but it seems I'm being outbidded, and any higher price compares unfavorably to a new Micra.