I am new to the forum and seeking advice. For the past ten years I have been using an Innova / Ascaso Steel Uno Prof espresso machine + Rancilio Rocky grinder with varying success. This past weekend the Innova stopped working and I think the pump is broken so now seems like an ideal time to upgrade to a better machine which will need to handle approx. twenty drinks per week for many years to come.

Three main criteria come to mind:

-Ideally not more than $2000 CAD
-Compact. My Innova is 270W x 360H x 315D and I don't have much more counter space to spare.
-Easy to use and quick to heat up (<15mins).

<OT> The Rocky grinder seems to work fine and I recently replaced the burrs after I noticed that I had nearly run out of adjustment on the grind setting. It seems as if a high-end grinder is considered equally important for making good espresso drinks but I might have to keep the Rocky for a bit longer.

The Innova only has a pressure gauge so I have always struggled for consistent taste which has me leaning towards a new machine with a PID. The heat exchanger vs dual boiler thing has me a bit confused but since I never make more than four drinks back-to-back and only steam milk a couple of times per week it seems like either system would be fine.

These are some of the machines that caught my eye but expert advice would be greatly appreciated!

-Profitec Pro 300 Dual Boiler

-Quick Mill ALEXIA PID or Dual Boiler QM67 Evo

-Lelit Mara PID

-Rocket Appartamento

Would it be a suggestion to replace the pump install a PiD and invest in a really good grinder?

"Would it be a suggestion to replace the pump install a PiD and invest in a really good grinder?"

Possibly. I am not sure where to source a new pump (assuming that is the problem) and the small heat exchanger means that more than two drinks causes a delay. Would it be easy to add a PiD to this old Innova model?

Do I dare ask what a 'really good grinder' would cost? I am limited to ~18" height to tuck under my kitchen cabinets.

Hi fellow Canuck. Based on your $2,500 budget (Canadian dollars), even a Baratza Vario would be an improvement over your Rocky:
http://www.idrinkcoffee.com/Baratza_Var ... -vario.htm

Unfortunately, we in Canada are getting hammered with the sinking dollar. So espresso equipment prices in Canada have skyrocketed over the last 2 years.

Since you don't make many milk drinks, you could pair the Vario with a Quickmill Silvano or Bezzera Unica:
http://www.idrinkcoffee.com/Bezzera_Uni ... ca-b15.htm
http://www.idrinkcoffee.com/Quick_Mill_ ... no-b21.htm

Both machines have PID temp control, and both will make nice espresso. But if you think you'll change your mind, and want to make more milk drinks, you're better off jumping to an HX or DB. But that'll cost more of those precious, sinking Canadian dollars.

An HX gives you more bang for the buck. While a DB gives you the extra frills for more moolah. I personally don't think prosumer DBs are the greatest value for budget conscious home baristas. But that's just me. See this quote wall link for my elaboration on this
Quotable Quotes

Both HXs and DBs can get you to espresso nirvana, but via different paths. However, both paths eventually travel through The Land of Capable Grinders. And there's a price of admission to get in.

EDIT: all the machines you listed are capable. Just different. The Lelit Mara PID and Rocket Appartamento are both HXs. Despite what the Lelit is called, you still need to perform a cooling flush. The PID just replaces the pressurestat controller on the Lelit to control boiler temp. It doesn't regulate the brew temp.

My guess is you'll need an Ulka pump if the pump is broken, they are the common vibe pump in most machines and you should be able to find one locally for something like the equivalent of 40-50€ but check what you need first. pId-ing should be easy especially if you can find a ready made kit (auber) or a thermocouple that fits the thermostat (assuming there is one), this forum may already have a report of someone pid-ing an ascaso, not sure.

The thing is not working right now, so time to unplug and unscrew...if you're up to that electronically and on for a bit of tinkering.

Going new certainly is an alternative too, many shiny new machines to choose from....

Thanks for the reply canuckcoffeeguy.

Buying a new grinder really wasn't part of the plan because the ol' Rocky is still going strong. The grinder talk is probably best saved for a new thread but can someone point me in the direction of a good tutorial that explains what a ~$1000 grinder does than my Rocky doesn't? Is it honestly impossible to get high-quality, consistent espresso using the Rocky? My current Innova Duo + Rocky combo provides spotty consistency (maybe 50% of my pulls are good) but I assumed it was mostly due to the lack of temp control (no PID) with the Innova??? Is it worth mentioning that I use beans like Black Cat and Stumptown Hair Bender, not the darker, oilier Italian roasts?

Back to espresso machines - Both of your recommendations have the compact dimensions I need and the PID feature so what really separates them? My understanding is that the Unica's E61 Group Head will offer better quality/consistency but it will take longer to heat up. The Unica also offers 0.5" more height clearance for cups which I would find useful and a larger water reservoir. Both machines claim decent milk steaming capability and for the once a week I would use this feature it probably doesn't matter. What would compel someone to choose the Silvano Evo over the Unica?

Should I be fussed that neither machine has a rotary pump?

canuckcoffeeguy wrote:Hi fellow Canuck. Based on your $2,500 budget (Canadian dollars), even a Baratza Vario would be an improvement over your Rocky:
http://www.idrinkcoffee.com/Baratza_Var ... -vario.htm

Unfortunately, we in Canada are getting hammered with the sinking dollar. So espresso equipment prices in Canada have skyrocketed over the last 2 years.

Since you don't make many milk drinks, you could pair the Vario with a Quickmill Silvano or Bezzera Unica:
http://www.idrinkcoffee.com/Bezzera_Uni ... ca-b15.htm
http://www.idrinkcoffee.com/Quick_Mill_ ... no-b21.htm

Both machines have PID temp control, and both will make nice espresso. But if you think you'll change your mind, and want to make more milk drinks, you're better off jumping to an HX or DB. But that'll cost more of those precious, sinking Canadian dollars.

An HX gives you more bang for the buck. While a DB gives you the extra frills for more moolah. I personally don't think prosumer DBs are the greatest value for budget conscious home baristas. But that's just me. See this quote wall link for my elaboration on this
Quotable Quotes

Both HXs and DBs can get you to espresso nirvana, but via different paths. However, both paths eventually travel through The Land of Capable Grinders. And there's a price of admission to get in.

EDIT: all the machines you listed are capable. Just different. The Lelit Mara PID and Rocket Appartamento are both HXs. Despite what the Lelit is called, you still need to perform a cooling flush. The PID just replaces the pressurestat controller on the Lelit to control boiler temp. It doesn't regulate the brew temp.

Fullgas wrote:Thanks for the reply canuckcoffeeguy.

Np!

Fullgas wrote: Buying a new grinder really wasn't part of the plan because the ol' Rocky is still going strong. The grinder talk is probably best saved for a new thread but can someone point me in the direction of a good tutorial that explains what a ~$1000 grinder does than my Rocky doesn't? Is it honestly impossible to get high-quality, consistent espresso using the Rocky?

I haven't personally used the Rocky. But there are a gazillion threads about why the Rocky is very inconsistent for espresso. And it doesn't give you stepless control. It was once highly regarded, many moons ago -- mainly when mastodons still roamed the earth -- but now it's considered very dated and outperformed by many other grinders. There have even been threads about how misaligned they can be because of poor fabrication. Bottom line, if you want to improve your espresso and consistency, the best thing to do is upgrade your grinder, too.

Do a search for the Rocky on HB and you'll see how many results there are.

There are so many other things I could get into about why a grinder upgrade would help. E.g. Particle distribution, burr design, burr size, alignment, tolerances, stepless adjustment etc. But Don't take my word for it. Search through the forums about grinder upgrades and you'll get the picture.

Fullgas wrote: My current Innova Duo + Rocky combo provides spotty consistency (maybe 50% of my pulls are good) but I assumed it was mostly due to the lack of temp control (no PID) with the Innova???

Temp control is a big issue, too. Too cold and your espresso will be sour. The opposite and it will be bitter hot tar. But the biggest gain will certainly be from a better grinder. Even the Vario should give you a substantial improvement. The name of today's film is GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER, starring Grinder McGrinder.

Fullgas wrote: Is it worth mentioning that I use beans like Black Cat and Stumptown Hair Bender, not the darker, oilier Italian roasts?

Yes, this is worth mentioning. Because the Rocky was designed for traditional doubles of 14g using traditional Italian roasts. The opposite of what you're using. Black Cat and Hairbender are more finicky and complex. Hence, they would greatly benefit from better equipment. What movie is playing again tonight? Wait for it... You guessed it.... GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER!

Fullgas wrote:Back to espresso machines - Both of your recommendations have the compact dimensions I need and the PID feature so what really separates them? My understanding is that the Unica's E61 Group Head will offer better quality/consistency but it will take longer to heat up. The Unica also offers 0.5" more height clearance for cups which I would find useful and a larger water reservoir. Both machines claim decent milk steaming capability and for the once a week I would use this feature it probably doesn't matter. What would compel someone to choose the Silvano Evo over the Unica?

Both are good choices for almost exclusively straight shots. Again, if milk becomes a priority. Then HXs and DBs all the way.

The Unica gives you the storied E61 grouphead. I have the Unica's big brother the Bezzera Magica an HX. Bezzera and Quickmill both have good build quality and make good products. Check out the HB review of the Silvano.

Dont worry about heat up times. You can get a timer like the WeMo Insight. I have one and you can set multiple schedules and control it remotely with your cell phone. Others on HB have it as well and have reported no problems. Your machine will be nice and toasty when you wake up. Ready to produce the drink of the gods and send you on your merry way.

Fullgas wrote:Should I be fussed that neither machine has a rotary pump?

Depends. A rotary pump is virtually silent, whereas a vibratory pump is exactly what it sounds like: Good vibrations and not the Beach Boys song. Also rotary pump machines are often plumbable, if you care about that. Rotary pump machines usually cost more and people say rotary pumps are more durable, but more costly to repair than vibratory pumps.

Phew.