Marmot wrote:I would also suggest to first look for a capable grinder. It really is more important than the machine.
What does a Lelit Mara X cost in Denmark? It is a really compact HX machine and has a temperature control in three steps for a low, medium and high setting. A coffee company here in Switzerland tested it thoroughly and they were very impressed with it. It does not need to be flushed before brewing. And according to their scace testing the three steps are 90 to 91, 91 to 92 and 93 to 95 degrees. I think this the ideal range for different roast profiles.
In your case I would probably go for a Mara X and maybe a Niche Zero or some other large conical grinder. You could always get a good flat burr grinder later on should the need arise for it.

Lelit MaraX PL62X is around 1400 EUR. But if that the price range, then I would opt for the Pro 300 (DB) I suppose since it is the same price. I used to live in Munich, although its a couple years back, I still understand German. I was watching these two swiss guys from youtube (Kaffeemacher) who did a similar experiment and came to the same conclusion that MaraX was an incredible machine.

Supposing I stick with the Pro 600, which grinder would you suggest to pair with it?

Edit: somehow missed Jeff's reply :-/

While the Bianca do have a flow-control modified E61 grouphead, it also have separate PID-regulated boilers for brew and steam
I find the machine both quick to heat up and consistent in temperature in a home environment (i.e 3-4 back-to-back shots)

Yes, you can always change the steam tip to one of your liking... Assuming you go the route of a DB machine with PID temperature control of the steam boiler, you can also adjust the steam pressure by adjusting the temperature of the boiler on the PID.
A single hole tip will limit the amount of steam that comes out to make the steaming process slower. The steam in the boiler will last longer and you'll have more control, but depending on the amount of milk you are trying to steam, you may have issues getting a good vortex going to ensure the foam is well incorporated into the milk. Going up to a 3 or 4 hole tip will make the process much much faster but can also be too "violent" for small quantities of milk - so much steam that it is difficult to keep the milk in the pitcher!
I would suggest you start out sticking to the stock tip (likely a 2 hole) and see how it goes. Assuming it will be one of the upgraded Profitec models that can do 2 bar of steam pressure, you can adjust the steam pressure wherever you like (by adjusting the steam boiler temperature in the PID) to get the results you want. Then if you decide you want more or less you can change the steam tip.

In my case, my wife typically steams close to 250ml of milk at a time for her drinks so the 4-hole steam tip makes it much faster and the volume of milk is high enough to keep the process controllable. If I want to do a smaller quantity for an occasional cortado then it is much more challenging because the 4-hole tip heats up the smaller quantity of milk insanely fast.

Josh

Several comments:
1. Don't get an HX machine. They work better in a busy cafe, but for use at home, a DB will be much more user-friendly and give you many fewer crappy shots. Also, if you want to sell it in 10 years, you will be hard-pressed to unload an HX most likely, since everyone is moving into DB's now.
2. I've used knobs and joystick steam controls and much prefer the knob. Many joysticks (all of them I've used) are pretty much on/off. If you want to try to finesse something less than 100% on, you must keep one hand on the joystick while steaming, which means you are holding the pitcher with the other hand and therefore do not have a spare hand to feel the temp of the milk in the pitcher. I suppose you could use a thermometer, but hey.
3. Don't count on being able to find a single-holed steam want for your machine. Check beforehand, because not all manufacturers make all variations. I put a Profitec tip on my LMLM so I could steam small quantities of milk and they make a 2-hole and 4-hole, but not a 1-hole.
4. If the Niche grinder is in your price range, I think it is much more capable than a small Eureka (I've used a Niche and only read about the Specialita).

Barista Jake wrote:Hi all baristas,

I am in the search for my first espresso machine and was hoping for some useful input from my fellow and knowledgeable baristas.

Hi Jakob,

I really can't answer any of the things you're looking for as far as other machines, but I was in the same situation as you just two weeks ago.

In the end I went with the Pro 600 with flow control.

This is also my first machine - I used to use a Moka pot.

My reasoning is like yours - I wanted something that would last and after looking at the HX machines I decided against them, for the same reasons stated by others. I wanted the temperature control. I also wanted the flow control since we mostly drink decaf and someone mentioned in a thread I started that flow control may help with decaf. Also, flow control adds an element that I can play with, and let's face it - this is all about play!

I was looking at the Pro 300, based on reviews, price, the double boiler, and also the build quality. If I remember right the Pro 300 had a lot of copper and steel mesh water lines that handled the hot water, versus Teflon hoses in some other brands? I think that's correct, but after so much research I may have the incorrect. But I liked that idea at least for us.

The only downside was the steam in the Pro 300. Not that it's bad at all, but I started to look more at the 600 and... we bought that in the end.

I can't be happier with our choice.

I think I pull 5-8 double shots a day (we got it 5 days ago), mostly for milk drinks, and I've never had an issue. I love this thing - and I haven't even started to calibrate the machine or do much to dial in the shots. I'm just playing, and having fun. [Now I do have to say that when steaming my wife's milk, around 180ml, she wants it very, very hot... so I keep going for as long as I can and, I haven't timed it, but maybe at 45 seconds or so the pressure goes from 2 bar down to 1.5 bar but... it's still nuking the milk. ] EDIT: I checked this morning and it was down to 1 bar, not 1.5... but it's still heating.

As for a grinder, I've ordered the Niche Zero which should be shipped out for us in the next two weeks I've heard.

For now I use a Baratza Virtuoso + and it's been kind of okay. To get us through.

I know a lot of people suggest spend your money first on the grinder, but as I saw in a post somewhere here, and this advice really said what I thought in my head - I'd hate to get less of a machine now and want to upgrade in a year or two. My dream was to go for the 600, and with my wife's support, we made it happen. Now would I have wanted to go to a $1,000 grinder to get a better one? I'm not sure, but I'm very excited to get the Niche. I don't think it's going to suck.

Not sure if any of this helps, but that has been my experience so far with the Pro 600.


Thanks,

Michael

Barista Jake wrote:Money is always an obstacle isn't it? Thats why i didnt mention the Synchronika or the Linea Mini. My budget is somewhat 2500 EUR. If I get the Pro 600 for 2000 eur i was planning on getting the Eureka Mignon Specialita. How does that sound for a set-up? What would you recommend pairing with the Pro 600 for around 500-600 EUR. Or how much should i spend to get the most out of the pro 600?

For me I started to get the most out of my 600 when I got my Monolith grinder. As has been recommended don't buy a HX. The 600 will be stable and allow you to not worry about the machine being a variable while you spend the first year learning how to be a good Barista. It takes time before you aren't the biggest limiting factor in the chain.

PIXIllate wrote:For me I started to get the most out of my 600 when I got my Monolith grinder.

I have to say, however many years it takes - this sounds like a fun next purchase.