I am trying to decide what to do with replacing my 1st gen double boiler (BES900XL). Probably had it for 5 or 6 years but due to issues (see below) it hasn't seen an excessive amount of use.

I was initially thrilled with it but that lasted only a couple of years when the espresso flow got really slow. I eventually procured and installed a new pump, which I later discovered was unnecessary as the issue was the solenoid valve, which I then procured and replaced. Used the machine for awhile and now the flow is down to a trickle again. It pumps only 1 ounce in 60 seconds with coffee in the portafilter, 2 ounces of water with no coffee in the portafilter. Pressure is fine and I have tested and adjusted the OPV. All good. No leaks, controls work perfectly, no funny solenoid valve noises, just no flow. I guess it is probably the solenoid valve... again... and/or the thing needs descaled, which for the 1st gen is factory service.

So my questions are:

Is the 2nd Gen BES920XL any better? Does the user descaling capability help with failing clogged solenoids to prevent this low flow nonsense? I really like the machine and will ask Breville about trading/upgrading but not sure I want to go there if this is going to be repeated. Plus it appears that Breville are making the parts hard or impossible for owners to get.

What would be a good machine from another maker with roughly equivalent capability and better parts support? Things I like about it are the big water reservoir, PID and programmable controls, decent frothing wand, etc.

Get another bdb. Nothing comes close in the bang for buck. Club.

Not so much if the thing loses flow due to failed/clogged solenoid every 2 years! I'd like to hear from owners if the 920's descale feature increases the solenoid valve's useful life.

Maybe explain how you used and maintained your old machine? The kind of water you used, your maintenance routine etc.

Worst treatment to an espresso machine is when you use unfiltered hard tap water, minimum daily cleaning, minimum to none periodic cleaning, no periodically descaling, no periodically maintenance or check ups.

I don't mean to dazzle you but if this is the case your next machine will be the same regardless of which machine you choose to buy. You can buy an extremely reliable machine for 5000$+ and ruin it in due time. Look into a couple restoration/refurbishment threads and you will see machines in terrible conditions. Same machines also served decades when used and maintained properly.

Regarding Breville Dual Boiler.
If you're in a position to send in your machine for repair/refurbish/replace at 350$ deal and be able get a bes920, you will need to spend at least an order of magnitude more money to get a better espresso producing machine. Be sure to check your machine is in a condition, that they will not bother repairing, but send a new one.
But if you're willing to spend that amount of money (more than 350$ x 10) then everyone here will suggest you to put that money in a grinder like Monoliths.

But first make sure you start with a good water and preventive maintenance knowledge.

One more question did you do a through descaling/cleaning maintenance before you replaced the solenoid valve? That might explain why it got clogged afterwards if you installed it on a machine with boiler full of scale.
Notice from a parts seller on their product page for solenoid valves:

Please note:

You must take the boiler apart and clean it manually prior to installing this solenoid valve (full service). Otherwise the solenoid valve can be damaged/blocked very soon.
Replacing the solenoid valve would only solve a symptom, not the problem, unless it is an electrical fault to be blamed.

I use tap water filtered through an under sink carbon filter. Use the cleaning tabs as prompted by machine. As stated, descale is not an option and the machine is supposed to prompt when to send it to the factory.

raylo32 wrote:I am trying to decide what to do with replacing my 1st gen double boiler (BES900XL). Probably had it for 5 or 6 years but due to issues (see below) it hasn't seen an excessive amount of use.

I was initially thrilled with it but that lasted only a couple of years when the espresso flow got really slow. I eventually procured and installed a new pump, which I later discovered was unnecessary as the issue was the solenoid valve, which I then procured and replaced. Used the machine for awhile and now the flow is down to a trickle again. It pumps only 1 ounce in 60 seconds with coffee in the portafilter, 2 ounces of water with no coffee in the portafilter. Pressure is fine and I have tested and adjusted the OPV. All good. No leaks, controls work perfectly, no funny solenoid valve noises, just no flow. I guess it is probably the solenoid valve... again... and/or the thing needs descaled, which for the 1st gen is factory service.

So my questions are:

Is the 2nd Gen BES920XL any better? Does the user descaling capability help with failing clogged solenoids to prevent this low flow nonsense? I really like the machine and will ask Breville about trading/upgrading but not sure I want to go there if this is going to be repeated. Plus it appears that Breville are making the parts hard or impossible for owners to get.

What would be a good machine from another maker with roughly equivalent capability and better parts support? Things I like about it are the big water reservoir, PID and programmable controls, decent frothing wand, etc.

There's a thread where you can learn a lot about the differences between the 900 and 920 and also from the resident guru PCRUSSEL50 (Peter).
Breville Dual Boiler Fiver Years On

I highly doubt you're going to get feedback that can actually answer your question. Experience doesn't really mean anything just because you're solenoid never fails and you descale regularly. The user would have to know that the solenoid WILL FAIL if and only if they don't descale regularly. I don't think you're going to find any BDB users that know this as a fact and proceed with proper maintenance as they see fit. I certainly don't, but I take care to use GOOD WATER and don't fret the scale.

You're going to get a lot of different feedback here. None of it will reach a consensus so you'll have to make up your mind as to whether you'll go the incredibly cheap route of replacing your BDB with a newer 920 through the program or spending a lot more money on a different machine.

Having said that, the solenoid is a known issue of the 900s... I haven't heard much about it for the 920s.

The solenoid valve seal solution is better on the newer ones. Send it in for an out of warranty service. You'll probably get a new machine. Search the forum for accounts of people's experience wit Breville's out of warranty service program. I think you'll like what you find out.

I am back, baby! I disassembled the machine and removed the solenoid valve again. It looked clean but what about inside. So I popped it in my workshop vise with the flange facing up, then took 3 test leads and connected to the solenoid (it is a 120v AC unit) to wires I probed into a nearby electrical outlet (please don't try this at home unless you know what you are doing). I was then able to cycle the solenoid valve at will by working one of the hot wires. Then I poured some vinegar on the flange and cycled the solenoid. The vinegar ran through it to get to the insides and out the outlet tube. Then I blew it out with compressed air. Reinstalled the solenoid and voila, major flow... 8 ounces of water in 40 seconds with no coffee... it had been only 2 ounces in 60 seconds before. Can easily hear the pre-infusion flow again. I had to totally revamp my grind, dosing and tamping to accommodate the flow. getting perfect shots again. So I guess I'll keep the old 900 for awhile longer.

raylo32 wrote:I am back, baby! I disassembled the machine and removed the solenoid valve again. It looked clean but what about inside. So I popped it in my workshop vise with the flange facing up, then took 3 test leads and connected to the solenoid (it is a 120v AC unit) to wires I probed into a nearby electrical outlet (please don't try this at home unless you know what you are doing). I was then able to cycle the solenoid valve at will by working one of the hot wires. Then I poured some vinegar on the flange and cycled the solenoid. The vinegar ran through it to get to the insides and out the outlet tube. Then I blew it out with compressed air. Reinstalled the solenoid and voila, major flow... 8 ounces of water in 40 seconds with no coffee... it had been only 2 ounces in 60 seconds before. I had to totally revamp my grind, dosing and tamping to accommodate the flow. getting perfect shots again.
So I guess I'll keep the old 900 for awhile longer.

Dude, you're kind of insane, but AWESOME!

They actually use the same exact solenoid. So maybe more frequent descaling since the 920s allow the user to do that will make it live longer? That is my main question regarding the 920 vs 900. Otherwise they are pretty much identical. But not an issue for me now, at least for awhile longer.

Spitz.me wrote:
Having said that, the solenoid is a known issue of the 900s... I haven't heard much about it for the 920s.