I believe the Oracle is the model with a built in grinder. You would be better off with many stand-alone grinders compared to the built-in ones. (Although I've never used the Oracle). I have a LMLM and a Cremina and love both of them. A pump driven machine would probably be easier to master by a non-hobbyist. There are a ton of machines between the Breville and the LMLM which make great espresso. Curious why you hadn't looked at any. The Spaziale Vivaldi series comes to mind as an excellent machine with volumetric dosing that has an excellent record of longevity and is quite affordable in comparison with the other machines you're looking at.

mgwolf wrote:There are a ton of machines between the Breville and the LMLM which make great espresso. Curious why you hadn't looked at any. The Spaziale Vivaldi series comes to mind as an excellent machine with volumetric dosing that has an excellent record of longevity and is quite affordable in comparison with the other machines you're looking at.

Perhaps it's La Marzocco's marketing, brand recognition, connection to quality...you get the point.
I did look at others, but due to my pre-existing opinion of the LMLM, I've always come back to it.

I do want something simple, so that's a big motivation for the LMLM. I also want something that gives the minimal amount of headaches in terms of reliability, both in the machine itself and the drinks it produces.

With my current Astoria, it's sometimes a "fight" to get the right results. I wanted to avoid this for the next family machine.
Let's attribute my decision just to "personal preference"

I've concluded now that the LMLM/Niche Zero is in fact the best route for us. Wife is onboard. Thanks for encouraging me to bring my wife onboard. The "relationship advice" was appreciated! as was your personal take on the options on hand.
Thanks again.

fliz wrote:The LMLM doesn't give you control over preinfusion.

Have you considered a Londinium-R?

Have you considered a BDB?

Now we talking:

1. Londinium R, the low height and soft polish make it stand out.
2. Profitec Pro 800 (German manufacturing precision).
3. Quick Mill Achille (very close to above but very few reviews).
4. Bezzera Strega (Ulka buzzer pump will wake up family).
5. Salvatore lever.

LW HG-1 for a grinder, keep it all manual.

IMHO if I wanted to go bonkers with 20g shots again (oh the E61 triple basket 12h shift ICU youth) I would jump on a Profitec.
My evolution from the miniature Ponte Vecchio Lusso will be a nicely aged Cremina built after I was born.