IMAWriter wrote:This has to be a joke?

I'm missing the key word " ROBUR "

Cafesp

IMAWriter wrote:Dan...have to agree totally with you on this....
I owned a Rocky DL for a year....multi-purpose...It did an awesome job on vac and press pot..as well as drip...the press pot grind was even better than on my pristine SJ. I now use a Solis Maestro for all but espresso...serves my needs.Another reason the Rocky would also be a great choice for the OP as it would serve as an alt espresso grinder in the (un) likely event the Cimbali fails.

I'm looking make my Mini E for espresso only and had come to this same conclusion. Curious as to why you now use a Maestro? How does it compare to the Rocky?

Not in the same league (as an espresso grinder). But as I have had no stalls with my vac pots, and my Chemex pots taste great (I don't do French Press), I'd say it's more than adequate for my purposes. This is not to say my vac pot brew might not be slightly sweeter using my SJ, or your Rocky...but again, I'm satisfied with what I'm getting. The Maestro IS a rotary burr grinder (small burrs, to be sure), but the grind appears pretty dust and chunk free.



Edit....again, I must say, I find the subject (title) of this thread to be most silly, but I always endeavor to respond to a legitimate post.

Guys, please read Jim Schulman's (another_jim) input and take it seriously.

another_jim wrote:Espresso grinders are designed to produce fines, and thereby do worse for brewed coffees than grinders designed specifically to produce no or few fines like the large Ditting or Mahlkoenig grinders. I would think even a grinder designed for supermarkets, like the Bunn [...] would do better for drip or any steeping method.

If that is not enough, read the Titan Grinder threads (the Bench) on analysis of particle distribution, shape, etc. and the relation to taste.

As to Jim's remark "or any steeping method", I am not sure about Turkish coffee the grind of which is finer than espresso. It might require a Mahlkoenig type of burr with the ability to go fine enough yet without the espresso grinder particle distribution with two bumps (at two different sizes), which would confirm what he says.
Question is if this can be reversed and espresso grinders must be considered unsuitable for any extraction other than espresso?

Regards
Peter

CafSuperCharged wrote:Guys, please read Jim Schulman's (another_jim) input and take it seriously.

Regards
Peter

WHY?
Just because Mr. Schulman was polite enough to respond does not make this topic any less silly.
The OP has 3 super expensive espresso grinders, and can't get decide which makes the best DRIP coffee
Come on, folks. He further states he uses the Versalab for "after midnight decaf"?
Uh, I'll be most happy to take that horrible Versalab off his hands. Decaf indeed.

CafSuperCharged wrote: If that is not enough, read the Titan Grinder threads (the Bench) on analysis of particle distribution, shape, etc. and the relation to taste.

As to Jim's remark "or any steeping method", I am not sure about Turkish coffee the grind of which is finer than espresso. It might require a Mahlkoenig type of burr with the ability to go fine enough yet without the espresso grinder particle distribution with two bumps (at two different sizes), which would confirm what he says.

My experience trying to use a Mahlkoenig, which produces no fines, for espresso, is what really drove this home. For my first shot, I set the grind for espresso fineness (discernible graininess between the fingers, but powder appearance). I got the correct 6 to 7 second dwell time, but then came a gush that was pretty well indistinguishable from having no puck at all (except it formed a cone in the bottomless). I kept making the grind finer. By the time it hit Turkish, I got a flow rate appropriate to espresso; but I had to wait over a minute for the first drop to appear. None of these shots tasted like espresso, just like strong coffee; the espresso mouthfeel was entirely absent.

In short, the story I learnt on alt.coffee, that the better the grinder, the fewer the fines, is wrong for espresso: there is no espresso without fines. However, it is true for brewing coffee. For both styles, big burrs are almost always better than small ones, probably because the particle distribution can be more precisely engineered. But the burr design for brewing grinders is different than for espresso ones; the espresso grinders have a solid ring at the outer/lower diameter to create fines, while brewing grinders have burr channels cut all the way through to the outer/lower rim. On espresso grinders, I call this the "fines-ring."

With small burr grinders, this differentiation into grinder types is either less or absent, since the burrs will produce some fines no matter what. However even here there are differences: the trespade burrs on the Lux, Innova, Lelit, etc etc have a fines ring, and are clearly designed as espresso only grinders. The Capresso Infinity or Solis grinders, along with all hand powered grinders, have burrs cut all the way through, and are clearly more suitable for brewing. Very oddly, the original Solis Virtuoso, their "Rocky-killer," had a fines ring; but they removed it in subsequent production and thereby improved the taste, even for espresso. I guess the soft mounted burrs don't need a ring to produce the right amount of fines.

IMAWriter wrote:[...] this topic [...] silly.

I see the fun in your view, and probably would have been a writer too if I had picked this up faster.
You made me look a bit further and I noticed the OP's location: Disney Land.
This reminds me of an American visitor of this location to his son: "look son, you see? It's all real! It's all real! It's all real Disney!"

Regards
Peter

another_jim wrote:My experience trying to use a Mahlkoenig, which produces no fines, for espresso, is what really drove this home. For my first shot, I set the grind for espresso fineness (discernible graininess between the fingers, but powder appearance). I got the correct 6 to 7 second dwell time, but then came a gush that was pretty well indistinguishable from having no puck at all (except it formed a cone in the bottomless). I kept making the grind finer. By the time it hit Turkish, I got a flow rate appropriate to espresso; but I had to wait over a minute for the first drop to appear. None of these shots tasted like espresso, just like strong coffee; the espresso mouthfeel was entirely absent.

I checked Teemu Pihlatie's blog Espresso Passione as I seemed to remember he had tried the Mahlkoenig (German for grind king). Recently the passione has cooled a bit on his side, but the site is still up and I found it. Aside from the K30 IMNSHO being a design misfit (tacky art deco) with the techy La Marzocco GS/3 he uses:

Teme's Espresso Passione wrote:[...] Yes, I am still very happy indeed with the K30 - more so than with any of my previous grinders.

I do note that I use the naked PF less than I did with the conical grinders that I had because the K30 is less forgiving than they were. The shots also tend to go blonde earlier than with the conicals.

Nevertheless, once you get the dose and grind dialed in, it is good. Very good. Definitely better than the Rocky, MiniE or even the Casadio that I owned. The Compak was better in terms of the taste but a lot less user friendly. So I am happy. Others who have done comparisons between these grinders may disagree (I know that the casadio is popular in Germany), but I am happy with my choice.

Which makes me wonder, professore Schulman, caffè esp. h.c., if you refer to another model, maybe, or Teemu was in an euphoric pride of ownership state of denial when he wrote this.

Regards
Peter

IMAWriter wrote:
...Edit....again, I must say, I find the subject (title) of this thread to be most silly, but I always endeavor to respond to a legitimate post.

Relax Enjoy
It's a drink and it's only a drink !
Still looking for a GOOD grinder for Drip ( Cause I'm not only entertain myself but believing in sharing good coffee if I could and...still.. trying my best.)

How's about Ditting supermarket grinder model ? Good for drip ? Overkilled for home used ?
Thanks all for your input

Cafesp

CafSuperCharged wrote:Which makes me wonder, professore Schulman, caffè esp. h.c., if you refer to another model, maybe, or Teemu was in an euphoric pride of ownership state of denial when he wrote this.

The K30 (Ditting KE640) is an espresso grinder with a standard (for espresso) 64mm flat burr. I was using the Guatemala (Ditting KE804), a 130mm or so flat burr grinder. They aren't even in the same zip code in terms of size or capacity (500 kilos for the K30, 5000 for the Guatemala, and burrs that can be reconditioned). If you are spending big bucks for a brewing grinder, it's pretty nuts to buy one designed for espresso, when these brew grinder monsters are roughly the same price.