Mahlkonig EK43 vs Mazzer ZM - Page 4

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
malling
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#31: Post by malling »

If the window in the espresso range is too small it can just as well be because of a coffee burr carrier, you'll need the turkish burr carrier to have enough play, and it doesn't help if you have a subpar burr in it.

But it sounds allot like you got a Monday edition, it happens with any mass produced item.

bakafish
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Joined: 11 years ago

#32: Post by bakafish »

The similar situation was also on my Forte BG. The stock status could not grind fine enough for espresso. After I shimmed the upper/fixed burr, it worked very well. I don't know the Mahlkonig EK43 burr carrier have the coffee burr and turkish burr versions. Anyway, I am not convinced that the problem was not on the fixed burr mount.

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Denis
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#33: Post by Denis »

It is better to make more people aware of how the ek43 is out of the box, what are the downsides and what you need to do to make it good.

It is even more important as people are different and they have to test/understand the workflow of the ek43. It is not easy to work with, does a lot of spraying, you can grind into the portafilter only with a big funnel (wide 7-15 cm) I would not suggest grinding into a cup/container because the grind is fine and it sticks/compress a lot.

WDT with a wdt device (duomo, barista hustle wdt, voodoo needle) is mandatory, because the grind is to fine, w/o WDT you cannot do anything, just bad results.


Retention is minimal, after deep cleaning everything 0.5 g remains inside the burr chamber. Small beans (Ethiopia) may remain in the funnel before the burr chambers. My grinder has the motor tilted forward at a small angle, all the beans fall gravitational inside the burr chamber.

I am talking about ek43 for espresso. For brew methods, now I would not consider ek43 because there are newer grinders with ghost burrs and a sieving device (check amazon/ebay -sieve container coffee) you obtain way superior results with less mess, less counter top footprint, and less money invested.

RyanJE
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Joined: 9 years ago

#34: Post by RyanJE replying to Denis »

Have you owned an EK43? The claims here are not true RE: mess, etc. Rdt and grinding into a stainless milk pitcher is very clean, even at drip and coarse grinds which are normally messier. In fact, RDT isnt really needed either. Then just dump from the milk pitcher into PF or Brew basket.
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....

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Denis
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#35: Post by Denis »

Here are some examples that sustain what I wrote:

Awful - no WDT - distribution - or not efficient/sufficient WDT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-GDMoVAosU

Watch what happens with the coffee when he touches it, this is what happens when you grind into a pitcher then move.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W6D2DQyXQY

The compressed/tamped coffee is hard to WDT and will ruin your extraction. These are little things that matter.


ek43 is nowhere near convenient or easy to work with, a dose on demand would be, put pf in, wait for grind done. Ek does a lot of static, because fine grind + high rpm. The plastic gimmick sprout attracts a lot of chaff and fines. A grinder that needs attention but delivers a great taste.

Kony/robur is easier to handle, press, done.

And to make an analogy, italians pull shots short as time and long as ratio, this can only mean 1 thing, coarse grind. That grind doesnt need alot of attention in WDT, they just grind + light tamp and thats it. But for extra fine grind, you need exceptional distribution in order to obtain high EY or else you get what we can see in the first video.

RyanJE
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Joined: 9 years ago

#36: Post by RyanJE »

Denis wrote:Here are some examples that sustain what I wrote:

Awful - no WDT - distribution - or not efficient/sufficient WDT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-GDMoVAosU

Watch what happens with the coffee when he touches it, this is what happens when you grind into a pitcher then move.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W6D2DQyXQY

The compressed/tamped coffee is hard to WDT and will ruin your extraction. These are little things that matter.


ek43 is nowhere near convenient or easy to work with, a dose on demand would be, put pf in, wait for grind done. Ek does a lot of static, because fine grind + high rpm. The plastic gimmick sprout attracts a lot of chaff and fines. A grinder that needs attention but delivers a great taste.

Kony/robur is easier to handle, press, done.

And to make an analogy, italians pull shots short as time and long as ratio, this can only mean 1 thing, coarse grind. That grind doesnt need alot of attention in WDT, they just grind + light tamp and thats it. But for extra fine grind, you need exceptional distribution in order to obtain high EY or else you get what we can see in the first video.
So the answer is no, you have not?? When grinding into a pitcher is no messier than the monoliths which I also find easier to dose into a catch up, vs PF dosing...
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....

nester
Posts: 9
Joined: 8 years ago

#37: Post by nester »

I also got no problems with a catch cup, followed by londinium distribution tool, when coffee sits in the basket. Great results.

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Terranova
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#38: Post by Terranova »

malling wrote:If the window in the espresso range is too small it can just as well be because of a coffee burr carrier, you'll need the turkish burr carrier to have enough play, and it doesn't help if you have a subpar burr in it.

But it sounds allot like you got a Monday edition, it happens with any mass produced item.
I think you are spot on, we also have to give Denis credit, he said the EK was made for other stuff than 3rd wave spro.
You remember when Matt Perger suggested to lower the brew pressure for EK shots, now everybody expects them to run like a precision instrument instead of a work horse and that's what it did for 3 decades already.
Mine is from 1996 and has the 3rd burr set inside (SSP now) and was working in a bakery.

In 3 out of 10 EK's the burrs do not allow a proper flow rate for espresso.
8 out of 10 have a burr carrier which is off by more than 0,08mm - 0,2mm
2 out of 10 have a chamber which is worse than 0,03mm (that is when we go for sanding) but 2 is pretty good and they are CNC machined like you wrote in a previous post.
The white marker method gives you a clue if it is bad but very limited, I prefer to look at numbers.

Our locking mechanism is for another grinder.

The EK is the only grinder which has the burrs running dull vs dull and not like ANY other existing grinder sharp vs sharp, we tried to implement both ways to have 2 completely different particle size distributions by just pushing a buttom and changing the direction, this also only works with EK43 burrs MK or SSP. So 2 different outputs on one grinder + adjustable grind speed and going higher in speeds than 1400 RPM which results in a more uniform output btw.
Sounds like a "good hack" ? :P
A physical translation (IMO) the EK is shredding the beans but not cutting like all the others do.

The ZM is really nice but EK output is another league.
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RyanJE
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#39: Post by RyanJE »

Terranova wrote:
The ZM is really nice but EK output is another league.
What does this mean?
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....

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Terranova
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#40: Post by Terranova replying to RyanJE »

More uniform particle size distribution