Macap M4 (& Elektra Semiautomatica)

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howard seth
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#1: Post by howard seth »

I have an Elektra Semiautomatica and an Macap M4 stepless grinder (with hopper). I bought both 16 1/2 years ago... Perhaps, they both are getting a bit long in the tooth.
I replaced the burrs in the Macap grinder about a year or (two) ago I make espressos and pour over & French Press coffee. a few a day (not many cappuccinos anymore)
I wonder if it is worth replacing the grinder: is there really anything that much better than my Macap M4 under $700?

Or would it be more worthwhile to replace the Elektra Semiautomatica instead? (which is rusted internally - but still working)
Howie

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baldheadracing
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#2: Post by baldheadracing »

I think that if you enjoy your coffee now, then there's no reason to switch. Is there something in particular that you want to improve/change?

On the grinder side, the biggest change has been single-dosing grinders - where you weight out the dose and then grind just that dose. The most popular grinder of this type is the Niche Zero, which also fits your budget. However, single-dosing is a change in workflow that you may or may not like.

The Semiautomatica is a unique machine with, to me, a unique taste. The latest machines offer more controls and more flexibility, so if you like to experiment, there are now multiple choices in the market. While I prefer lever machines, I have my Semiautomatica (and Elektra/Macap MX) in my office and use it regularly.
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

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howard seth (original poster)
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#3: Post by howard seth (original poster) »

I always single dose with my Macap 4 - have since the beginning. If the Macap is up to snuff - probably more control - of my espresso would be good. I get too many bitter or sour shots these days.
I also home roast with a Behmor roaster have been doing that for years - Mainly to save $$ - good freshly roasted coffee has gotten even more expensive then ever
Howie

ira
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#4: Post by ira »

My first grinder was an M4-D. I never had a complaint about the grind quality and I might still have it today other than the retention.

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baldheadracing
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#5: Post by baldheadracing »

howard seth wrote:I always single dose with my Macap 4 - have since the beginning. If the Macap is up to snuff - probably more control - of my espresso would be good. I get too many bitter or sour shots these days.
I also home roast with a Behmor roaster have been doing that for years - Mainly to save $$ - good freshly roasted coffee has gotten even more expensive then ever
I'd say that the Niche is probably worth considering for workflow alone. The Niche uses Mazzer Kony conical burrs, which some would consider a significant upgrade over the typical Italian 58mm flat burrset - but taste is subjective. For example, you might prefer the Niche for espresso but the Macap for French Press.

"Too many bitter or sour shots" could be any of a multitude of things ranging from green coffee defects to (in a semiautomatica) a buildup of coffee oils behind the gicleur. Is it shots alone, or do the same taste issues happen with pour-over/French Press?
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

vecchi della seattle
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#6: Post by vecchi della seattle »

An Aceado E5SD Single Dose Burr grinder for $740USD seems pretty unbeatable. https://idrinkcoffee.com/products/ceado ... nder-black. The current exchange rate makes it a nice moment to upgrade.

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howard seth (original poster)
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#7: Post by howard seth (original poster) »

baldheadracing wrote:I'd say that the Niche is probably worth considering for workflow alone. The Niche uses Mazzer Kony conical burrs, which some would consider a significant upgrade over the typical Italian 58mm flat burrset - but taste is subjective. For example, you might prefer the Niche for espresso but the Macap for French Press.

"Too many bitter or sour shots" could be any of a multitude of things ranging from green coffee defects to (in a semiautomatica) a buildup of coffee oils behind the gicleur. Is it shots alone, or do the same taste issues happen with pour-over/French Press?
I don't notice the sour - bitterness in the French Press coffee - but then again the french press/pour over is so much less intense to me - than espresso. During the last 20 years I drank almost elusively espresso. I'm still new to the French Press/pour over world.

I'd like to get espresso shots as good as the ones I had at the original Verve Coffee roaste cafe circa 2010-12, in Santa Cruz , CA. It was so intense yet sweet. I think they had a large doing basket - maybe 21grams?. My Elektra Semiautomatica is 14 grams - tops.
Howie

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baldheadracing
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#8: Post by baldheadracing replying to howard seth »

I'd say that it is hard to compete with a memory :wink: .

How is a shot that you can get from Verve today? If you buy a bag from the same roast batch as the shot that you had in the café, then how close can you replicate that taste at home? How is the taste different?
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

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howard seth (original poster)
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#9: Post by howard seth (original poster) replying to baldheadracing »

That was a long time ago - I have no idea what blend they were using in 2010. I did buy a few bags of Verve coffee last month (usually, I just roast my own) mainly for French Press and pour over. I had a few espressos with the Verve beans. My espressos tasted thinner and not as sweet - perhaps harsher or sourer - than my memory. Moreover, even back in 2010-11 I thought, "I can't get espresso that good from my setup" that is why it was a surprise to me. "Ah, espresso can be this good!" A cousin of mine could not drink one - too intense for him.
I had an espresso from the same Verve cafe around 2015 - it was good - but not as good as the original Verve shots (Verve had expanded to more locations by then).
Howie

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baldheadracing
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#10: Post by baldheadracing »

The only coffee that I've gotten from Santa Cruz is from Cat & Cloud (former Verve employees).

Pulling shots "just like in a café" is a common goal that is not trivial to achieve. In more-or-less order of importance, some of the factors are:
- it's a café. The impact of external factors on taste is huge. The colour of the cup and the background music are two examples of seemingly-inconsequential-to-taste factors that have a measurable and repeatable impact on perceived taste.
- the same roast. Not just the same blend or green coffee or harvest, but the same roast batch.
- the same water as the shop. Café's usually use water that has been filtered and remineralized to a specific water recipe. This is especially true in hard water areas.
- the same grinder as the shop. One of the more annoying things that I have learned about coffee is different grinders give different results, sometimes shockingly so. For the right coffee, the difference in taste between a $4000 grinder and a $1000 grinder can be a gulf.
- the same brew parameters - pressure, temperature, dose, yield, etc. For example, some café's drop their brew pressure down to six bars for lighter roasts. Your (and my) stock spec Semiautomatica is not going to deliver the same taste as a six bar extraction.
- baskets. Verve was probably overdosing VST-18 or VST-20 baskets back then. That's quite a different basket and grind size from, say, 14g in the 14g Elektra. Note that I am not saying better, but different. (In my semi, I use a VST-15 for light and medium roasts, and the stock 14g basket for dark roasts. Again, different, not better.)
- prep. Home baristas now can out-prep working baristas thanks to innovations that are too time-consuming in a café like multiple-needle distribution tools.
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

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