Looking for Breville Dual Boiler accessory upgrades - Page 2

July 11th, 2020, 8:12 pm

pcrussell50 wrote:VST baskets are for machines that do not have flow control or the capability of long pre infusion. Most of us with flow control don't use them any more. They have a lot of "hole area", so they flow really fast. This enables you to grind finer for higher extraction yield, without choking the machine. It comes at a tradeoff... they are more finicky in the way of spritzing and channeling and thus require more meticulous (laborious) prep to try to stave off the channels. With the BDB, particularly with the Slayer mod, but even totally stock, you can grind super fine and just pre infuse at a super low setting for a super long time to soften the puck without choking the machine. You don't need a fast flowing basket with a BDB or any machine with controllable pre infusion or full blown flow control. The "magic" of VST is not the precision. The Breville baskets are very precise. It's the large hole area and fast flow, to help old skool espresso machines keep up with today's coffees. But the BDB does not suffer that problem.

I use an IMS shower screen with the stock plastic dispersion disc. I have a brass dispersion disc too. I can't tell any difference in performance. It is my opinion that Breville chose the phenolic resin disc because it is one less different metal to have up against the group. When you have an aluminum group, a brass disc, and a steel screw, you need to pay more attention to electrochemical corrosion. Not that you can't manage it by frequent cleaning and inspection of course.

Also, I'm not 100% sure that the stock shower screen isn't perfectly fine. I think it probably is. I'm mostly using the IMS screen because I have it.

What you should probably look at more closely is:
1) a 58.4'ish mm grooming tool the cheap Chinese ones are fine unless you want brand bragging rights
2) a 58.4'ish mm tamper, the cheap Chinese ones are fine unless you want brand bragging rights
3) a shot mirror, I use this one based on a tip from another BDB'er, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008Z ... UTF8&psc=1 It functions like the $150 LWW one

-Peter

Thank you for the theory and reasoning behind the VST baskets. Seems I shouldn't make the purchase for now and should instead analyze my currently pulls with a bottomless, and get a 58.4mm tamper. I couldn't find a 58.4mm grooming/distribution/leveling tool so I went with some chinese 58mm one for $20. Do you have any cheap 58.4mm tamps in mind?

I like the shot mirror, will save my back and neck, haha.

I have been looking into mods for the bdb, the rotary and slayer mods, but haven't done enough research to understand their benefits. Is there anywhere you would recommend me go for some reading about them?

Also, is the only option for bottomless pf for bdb the OEM breville one? I've seen some people using e61 pfs but they fit funny. $80 isn't cheap, but isn't terrible as well.

Thanks again Peter!

Jeff wrote:I still use my somewhere-near 58 mm tamper, old enough that it has the dents of the bygone practice of tapping the portafilter. I can't say that a $100-200 tamper makes an immediately noticeable difference in the cup. What matters in a tamper is that it's comfortable in your hand so you can apply even pressure, square to the basket.

There are only two manufacturers of precision baskets of quality, according to what I have read. If you've tried VST and IMS, you've tried them all.

I'd get your technique down with stock before exploring the subtleties of baskets, and the even more subtle effects of shower screens.

Awesome, will do. Seems like my only bottomless pf option is the breville one. I will do some more research and pick one up soon

#12: Post by **megamixman** » July 11th, 2020, 9:31 pm

Yeah Breville is the only option for a bottomless. WholeLatteLove had the best price on them last time I checked.

I've got the MHW 58.35mm wedge distributor from aliexpress on order. We'll see how well it works.

A good WDT tool makes a big difference for me. I made one out of fishing wire that Iooped and a champagne cork.

#13: Post by **DaveB** » July 11th, 2020, 9:45 pm

slickmamba wrote:I have been looking into mods for the bdb, the rotary and slayer mods, but haven't done enough research to understand their benefits. Is there anywhere you would recommend me go for some reading about them?

Ask and you shall receive...

Breville Dual Boiler "Slayer shots"?

#14: Post by **pcrussell50** » July 11th, 2020, 10:09 pm

slickmamba wrote: I have been looking into mods for the bdb, the rotary and slayer mods, but haven't done enough research to understand their benefits. Is there anywhere you would recommend me go for some reading about them?

Rotary:
No advantage for taste in the cup. BUT very convenient if you want to plumb it in. Also much quieter and more bling than vibe, as long as you mount it under your sink, like I did.

Slayer mod:
A step up from the already fabulous stock pre infusion. It's probably closer to correct to say that the stock pre infusion is more like a Slayer because a Slayer is two speeds, pre brew, and brew. Pretty much like the stock BDB. What the "Slayer mod" does is it allows fully adjustable on fly flow control from zero to full and anywhere in between, any time you want. Think like a water faucet for your espresso machine... trickle to full, steplessly, by turning the knob. Truth told, if you are skillful with the stock pre infusion, "Slaying" is probably only a smallish improvement. Still, enough so that a lot of us think it's worthwhile. Especially for speeding things up or slowing them down if the flow is a little faster than you were hoping/expecting.

HTH

-Peter

#15: Post by **jevenator** » July 11th, 2020, 10:53 pm

+1 on the slayer mod.

I was profiling day one and I used it pretty much on every single shot. I think I've only had 1-2 shots not "slayed" and did not like it. I drink light to medium light roasts exclusively.

#16: Post by **pcrussell50** » July 12th, 2020, 11:11 am

It occurs to me to add another data point... Monolith grinders now ship with a basket that Denis likes and uses himself. My Max came with one. It is not a VST or an IMS, or any other fast flowing/high extraction brand. Denis and I have a mutual friend and it's the same basket we all use. It's a garden variety inexpensive, but high quality basket like the Breville one. It's cheaper to buy actually, than the Breville baskets and IME "handles" about the same.

-Peter

#17: Post by **Jeff** » July 12th, 2020, 11:36 am

Reminded me of the EspressoParts house-brand "HQ" baskets which, as I recall, were good baskets. They're under $10 each with free US shipping. I see a 14 and a 21 listed. That would be a good way to start to try different baskets. I prefer ridgelesss, myself, the way I prep.

July 12th, 2020, 1:10 pm

That's the one. No advantage over the Breville basket IME. But it's cheaper. And cheap enough that there's no harm in getting one. Or more. I have the ridged 14g. It fills like like an 18 and that's how most of us use it. The ridge is moot at those fill levels. The one that came with my Monolith Max was the 21, not ridged. I haven't even tried that one. The EPNW 14 and the Breville both do 18g with the right headspace.

-Peter

July 13th, 2020, 1:43 am

Jeff wrote:Reminded me of the EspressoParts house-brand "HQ" baskets which, as I recall, were good baskets. They're under $10 each with free US shipping. I see a 14 and a 21 listed. That would be a good way to start to try different baskets. I prefer ridgelesss, myself, the way I prep.

Oh that is cheap. I'll pick one up. How do ridges affect prep/brew?

#20: Post by **Jeff** » July 13th, 2020, 1:50 am

Brew? Hard to say that the ridge directly impacts brew at all.

I like to weigh, fill, and prep my basket out of the portafilter handle. No ridge makes it easy to pop out with a push from underneath and there's no snap in to jostle the grounds. Easier for me, maybe, just maybe, that lack of a click might, occasionally, make a tiny difference in the puck uniformity which might make a small difference in the cup.

If I were using a ridged basket with a stiff portafilter spring (mine is 10-15 years old now and gleefully weak), I'd probably just prep with the basket in the portafilter handle.