Looking for advice on HX espresso machine - Page 2

Recommendations for espresso equipment buyers and upgraders.
Turbo Ron

Postby Turbo Ron » Jan 14, 2019, 3:33 am

mhlwong wrote:Thanks Ron,
How would you compare with Quick Mill QM67 and Rocket Appartamento?

I have heard that the steam pressure is weak on the Quick Mill QM67. I do not know the Rocket Appartamento.


Postby TV33 » Jan 14, 2019, 4:01 am

I have a Rocket Appartamento since April 2018. I am delighted. Extraction quality, powerful steam, heated in 20 minutes (I then pass a little hot water in the filter holder, ...). I do not miss the PID because I think the original setting is fine. In addition, I do not appreciate the roasting clear (besides my feeling is that the group E61 is not made for these roasting, although obviously it is not prohibited). However, I always make sure that the cup is hot before pouring coffee. Sometimes I play a little preinfusion, but the lever is certainly not planned for that. In short, not too much electronics and I think that for a machine with heat exchanger, E61, it is more than enough. Some people may need a double boiler, perhaps, or a rotary pump (although the Appartamento is not very noisy for a vibrating pump). If I had to put money in a more sophisticated machine (and obviously the mill, I just ordered the Niche), it would not be in a group E61. What I mean is that for an E61, the Appartamento is Top. And that soon I will come perhaps to put next to the Appartamento another machine (group Rossi or machine with lever, or LMLM but there it becomes expensive ...) to discover other sides of the coffee.


Postby Bluenoser » Jan 14, 2019, 3:33 pm

I had a 500PID HX (Profitec) for about 7 months. It has a newer thermosyphon design and its rebound is slow. So while older HX designs require flushes and will allow you to pull shots 2 min apart, mine requires about 5-10 minutes between shots to fully recover. (This may be a unique characteristic of my particular machine). I can pull 2-3 back to back shots and they are all pretty good.. the first a little hot.. the second seems perfect, the 3rd a little cool.. all within about 10 minutes.. but then I need to wait about 15 minutes before I can pull a 4th shot.

Knowing what I know now, I would not buy an HX design without also buying the external group thermometer that will tell me when the machine rebounds enough to pull successive shots. An external thermometer can also help DB machines, but it is really the only way to nail down your flushing technique on HX designs and let you know where your brew water temp is.

You can do 'trial & error', but that is a pretty long process. Having a SCACE really helps if you know someone who has one and you can borrow while you learn the thermal characteristics of your machine.


Postby mhlwong » Jan 14, 2019, 10:39 pm

Thanks all!

I am really surprised by the replies... Probably both Appartamento and Profitec 500 are suffered from the unknown brewing temperature due to the HX design, particularly when pulling the second shot (First shot could be more or less consistent by using cooling flush?). And the only solution is probably Eric's thermometer.

Actually, what I am thinking is that there is lack of insulating stainless steel boiler and PID in Appartamento and I believe that I will be with the espresso machine for many years.... I have no experience in E61 machines, comments on the importance of these two features would be much welcomed.

I am now also thinking of cheap dual boiler machines. Apart from Quick mill QM67 and Expobar, is there any cheap DB available too?


Postby DeGaulle » Jan 15, 2019, 3:38 am

Considering you are drinking lattes, don't be too concerned about whether you will be nailing the brew temperature exactly on each shot. I think you can go about a cooling flush fairly intuitively as demonstrated in this video:


If your temperature is a little off (which you will be blissfully unaware of without a thermometer), I wonder if you will notice it in a latte. If you want to hone in on flushing technique because you want to be able to dial in your shot more accurately, you can always order the thermometer as an accessory.


Postby HRC-E.B. » Jan 15, 2019, 12:24 pm

I have a Rocket HX with PID, which is essentially a more sophisticated version of the appartmento. I like it. Despite the slow rebound in grouphead temp, I don't seem to have any problems brewing at the right temp. I seldom make more than 3 shots in a row, so I haven't tested its abilities beyond that.

I have added the grouphead thermometer, which I think helps knowing what's going on.