Long time drinker, first time buyer

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
neilometer
Posts: 15
Joined: 4 years ago

#1: Post by neilometer »

I currently have a Flair and a crappy first gen Kitchen Aid grinder (I borrow a friend's Baratza sometimes). I enjoy most forms of non-milk based espresso drinks as well as V60 or Aeropress. As it stands, I use the Aeropress the most and occasionally break out the Flair, but fiddling with it is not fun and my grinder is marginal at best.

My daily routine is a drink in the morning and one in the early afternoon. My partner enjoys milk drinks, so I need to consider steam power. Space is not an issue and I can plumb if necessary.

I've been conversing with Clive a bit and over the course of a week or so have reduced and refined my list of potential machines/grinders to the ones below. It looks like, from the two most expensive options in each category, my high end budget is... gulp... $4700.

Machines (by price, desc)
-----------------------------
Decent DE1PRO v1.3
ECM Synchronika
Profitec Pro 800 lever
Lelit Bianca V2
Profitec Pro 700
Quick Mill LUCCA M58
La Spaziale LUCCA A53
Lelit Elizabeth

Grinders (same order)
--------------------------
Eureka Atom 75
Ceado E6P
Niche Zero
Eureka Mignon Specialita

If I had to make a choice today, I would pick the Pro 800 and the Atom 75, but, obv, I'm not ready to do that yet ;-)

The earliest I can get a Niche Zero is (maybe) some time in September. I'm also not sure if Black Friday means anything this year or for this type of purchase.

The last two machines on that list are obviously at a lower tier, but the economy/convenience is intriguing.

Advice appreciated.

megamixman
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Joined: 4 years ago

#2: Post by megamixman »

I would recommend you add the Breville Dual Boiler to your list since it has all the capabillities of other machines you've included.

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Jeff
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#3: Post by Jeff »

There typically aren't "doorbuster" prices on machines and they typically all sell for the same price across all authorized dealers in a region. In my experience, a top vendor's service into the future has great value, between saving you on parts and keeping your downtime to a minimum.

You've got some great machines on your list. My personal opinion is that if you're buying above the entry level (which you are), that some kind of adjustable preinfusion and flow management has already set some machines apart from others "in the cup" and that this will become even more important as tastes and roasters move lighter and lighter.

You've also got three very different classes of machines; the DE1, top-end DB E61 w/flow management, and lever. They all "work" very differently and all can produce excellent espresso without the gyrations that some mid-priced units require. They all look and sound different as well. I wouldn't be disappointed to have any of your top five contenders in my kitchen (assuming the flow-management option on the E61 units).

If the DE remains on your list, you might want to consider the functionally equivalent DE1+ for home use. Past and current Decent Espresso users, DE1+ or Pro? The DE1 / NZ combo is very popular, used by John and Scott for demos and trade shows, and comes in around $3,700 with US delivery.

If the "gulp factor" remains high, then the "BDB" is perhaps the best option under around US$2000 for in-cup quality across a wide range of beans.

neilometer (original poster)
Posts: 15
Joined: 4 years ago

#4: Post by neilometer (original poster) »

Thanks for the quick replies! I was not considering the BDB mostly b/c of durability over time concerns. I naively went into this thinking I'd just get an end game setup. I am now 46 and have yet to buy a single home espresso machine for various reasons over the years and kind of want to get something that will not lead to "upgraditis" in a few years, IYKWIM. This may be foolish, I don't know.

On one hand, as an engineer/software dev, I love the idea of tinkering with recipes with the DE and being able to see all that data!
On the other hand, the purity and satisfaction of a great lever machine sounds so nice to wake up to in the morning!
On the... other other hand, a cheaper machine would be nice in these trying times.

The Elizabeth and BDB seem closely matched at first glance. Any opins on that comparison?

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Jeff
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#5: Post by Jeff »

BDB, slam dunk.

I think the concerns around unreliability are tainted by the tens or hundreds of thousands of people that treat them as a disposable appliance. Treated like an espresso machine, with good water and routine cleaning and maintenance, they're at least as reliable and inexpensive to own over the long haul as a European machine. Read some of the owners' threads here for more opinions.

That said, you sound like a prime DE1 candidate :wink:

There are threads and reviews, formal and informal, here on your leading contenders. Read, ask questions, decide what fits your style.

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slipchuck
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#6: Post by slipchuck »

The fact is you don't need anything else then the profitec pro 800. Lots of different machines use technology like the de1 to mimic a lever so why not just get one?
With the 800 you won't feel a need to upgrade.




Randy
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neilometer (original poster)
Posts: 15
Joined: 4 years ago

#7: Post by neilometer (original poster) »

OK, the advice so far has distilled my machine list down to two options:

$: BDB
$$$: PP 800

(Obviously I could go even higher, but let's cap it there for now!)

So, grinders...

As of now, Niche Zero is my top pick unless there is a better option under $1500 which is what I'm seeing online for a new Atom 75 in Stainless. I've never thought about using a hopper because I can't really brew that fast with the Flair, so single dosing works fine with that work flow. Once I can pump out faster shots, though, timed dosing gets more attractive maybe? The sales person at Clive is pushing for the Atom 75. They say it will work great for either single dosing or timed.

Thoughts?

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baristainzmking
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#8: Post by baristainzmking replying to neilometer »

I see you are considering Niche Zero. Eureka Atom 75 is quite a different animal. Do you want a Grinder with a hopper or Do you want to single dose?
Julia

neilometer (original poster)
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#9: Post by neilometer (original poster) »

Ideally, I'd want the option for both? Clive sales person tells me the Atom 75 is good at single dose or hopper therefore has more flexibility.

Incidentally, what is the opinion on that new Clive house brand Atom 65 with all the software? I feel like the laser adjustment would be a nightmare to keep calibrated and all those extra electronics would not last.

baristainzmking
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#10: Post by baristainzmking replying to neilometer »

I never owned Atom 75, so can't speak to its retention (hope that someone who has one will chime in), but the original Atom was know for high retention. If you want to do both, hopper and single dosing, Ceado E37s is a fantastic grinder with minimal retention. I had it and loved it, but eventually figured that I rarely needed the hopper and after scoring the Monolith Max, sold it.

I saw the YouTube intro from Clive on their house brand Atom 65...with all that electronics, thanks, but no thanks. YMMV
Julia

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