Londinium vs Decent? - Page 3

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.

#21: Post by macaber8 »

Things I found only after I got the lever machine:
Pulling the lever down is a work out.
To control the shoot length, you have to move your cup away at specific weight or pressure. There is not shut off during the middle of the extraction.
You are tied to 1 profile and 1 profile only when getting a lever machine like Londinium. It is a damn good profile that Decent will have trouble to match but with Decent there is much more you can play with.
Lever machine like Londinium is very much forgiving. You can pull a reasonable shot at the very first try and it is not very easy to mess it up. With Decent, I think it wont be as easy.

If your goal is simply have good coffee and you are not going to mess around after tuned in, Londinium is way to go.
If your goal is playing around with all kind of processes, Decent is the only choice.
I am not sure how and why this 2 machines are getting compared.


#22: Post by Primacog replying to macaber8 »

I agree that the traditional spring lever usually takes more effprt to pull down - espdcialy the doublr spring ones. However strangely i found that evem thoiugh my current Nurri lever has a double spring lever, it is far easier to pull down. A couple of other nurri owners who have owned traditonal spring levers also agree with this assessment. It may be due to the nurri using a ligjter and shorter lever arn and the lever arm is lower in height. So a lot depends on the design of the machine itselr.

On the baaic lever profile vs the decent, it is true that there is no other machine that can match the decent for beimg ablw to vary every variable at every point of the shot howevee the sprimg lever is capable of being manipulated ways by how ans when you pull down and release or if you retard the rise of the levee arm or if you even force the lever or if you do fellini atyle pulls. You can even change thw pressu4e of the preinfusion by such tricks.

These exusting abilities are further expanded by the hybrid type spring levers that have cartrudge heaters in the grouphead to provide independent heating and pid to allp2 precise temperature control and setting fot grouphead, brew boiler and steam boiler. There is also a pump to provide preinfusion at whatever pressure level that you set. The nurri leva is such a machime and thus to the traditiomal virtues of the lever is added much of the precisiom and versatility that the decent gives.
LMWDP #729


#23: Post by macaber8 replying to Primacog »

If we are going towards interrupting the spring motions, yes, I agree with you. Things one can do with hybrid type spring lever machine are unlimited. However, this kind of flexibility does not differentiate hybrid lever machines from regular lever machines. Certainly in different nature comparing to Decent.

The key feature of lever machines is lever profile. Lever machines, even Nurri Leva or Vesuvius, or even the Vostok, are not design to optimize for user to to do things like what a Decent could. Temperature stability, PI, and other features is all surrounding features that make the lever profile more consistent, therefore more valuable. These features might contribute to flexibility but not the primary goal.


#24: Post by Primacog replying to macaber8 »

I agree - only a decent can do what a decent can do. But that kind of approach doesnt appeal to me.
LMWDP #729


#25: Post by iyayy »

the point is decent allows experimentation.
but does not mean you must experiment every shot.

most likely user will end up using just one favorite profile, with small parameter tweak to tune flavor preference to the preferred dose, and stick to it till the end of the world..
or maybe 2 profiles...
... or more :lol:
just because there are people who loves abusing themselves with multitude variations of poor (and good?) coffee doesnt mean you have to join them when u use the same tools.

consequently, if a bean doesnt pull good, you have a number of things to optimize while keeping your favorite parameters.. at the tap of a screen. knowing when and what to adjust is still the key to getting good shot.

with levers.. prepare a hammer and screwdriver. and cost..
or just grin until bags is finished and move on.

now if there is a machine that have a button to set preinfusion pressure, a button to preinfusion time, and have a button to manually start declining the flow...
at stock bdb already have pi control and timed/manual pi, just missing the declining option and trigger.

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#26: Post by retireddude »

As odd as the comparison seems, I considered a Decent along with Londinium when planning an upgrade from a Rocket R58.

Ultimately, despite being a retired I.T. Worker, I decided that I didn't want to stare at a screen, choose options, make decisions and mess with technology first thing every morning. Also, after reading through a lot of Decent forum discussions, I learned that after experimentation, most Decent users seemed to settle on a lever profile, usually Londinium.

Also, a couple years of good experiences with a Cafelat Robot taught me how pleasurable a simple espresso device can be, and how incredibly good a lever style shot can be.

Lever machines aren't for everybody, of course, but after a brief learning curve with my Londinium Compressa I found it an unexpected joy to wake in the morning and pull simple, silent and delicious shots. Adjusting the grind, dose and pre-infusion time has provided all control I've needed to get excellent shots from every bean I've tried. In fact, it's truly hard to pull a bad shot on a Londinium.

I think a key question for prospective buyers to ask themselves is "do I prize flexibility or simplicity?" Or, "do I want to tinker and experiment with variables, to see how changes in pressure profiles, temp, flow, etc, effect the results in the cup, or do I just want consistently delicious espresso with minimal fuss?"

The answers, for me, pointed me in the direction of a lever.

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#27: Post by doug »

I've had LaCimbalis, LaPavonis, Elektras, a Flair and a Robot... and lived for years near a neighborhood cafe that had a beautiful Londinium. While I currently have a Decent for consistency, portability, prep speed, climate change reasons, and I use a tweaked lever profile on it... the Londinium sure would be tempting just for the classic feel of a good lever. Good choice, sir!