Lever Wanted - Page 4

October 24th, 2021, 10:11 pm

Okay, head is spinning, too many grinders to choose from. I woke up this morning and decided just to order one, any one, just to start getting my feet wet. We'll, I was unable to find any of the mentioned grinders in stock or available in less than 8 weeks.

So new question, will the Pharos be acceptable while I wait for a grinder or should I over pay in the used market? Seems like used grinder market is mimicking the used car market. My wife is planing a huge Christmas party and I hate the thought of the Pharos as my only option.

#32: Post by **Jeff** » October 24th, 2021, 10:53 pm

I enjoyed my Pharos back when they first came out. With the improved knowledge of how to clamp them down to make it easier on your arm, you're probably ok for a couple shots a session. That way you can have the time to get what you want, or discover something "even better".

I haven't been following the P100 very closely, but the angst I sense in another forum suggests to me that a "drop" may be coming up soon. Plenty of time, "30 minutes", I think was the comment. Hey, that's minutes and not seconds like some grinders.

#33: Post by **emradguy** » October 25th, 2021, 9:35 am

I'm not sure "over pay" is accurate for the used market. If you're looking at Kafatek grinders, which essentially sell for the price of a new one, the price is still fair. You're eliminating the difficult process of acquiring a new one, the very long wait, and the need to season the burrs. Those things are worth a premium. The grinder will still last more than your lifetime, in most cases without maintenance other than cleaning needed for many years. That probably goes for the EG-1 as well.

As Jeff said, mounting a Pharos with bench dogs really helps with the grinding issue. I bought a large thick butcher block from IKEA, and screwed two bench dogs into it for the Pharos, which works great. You could certainly pull several shots back to back that way, but it's still a slower process than using a motor powered grinder. However, the quality in the cup is definitely where you would want to be, and you have the added benefits that it is both very inexpensive and car travel friendly. Of course, if you're going to consider that, then you probably should be looking at other hand grinders too.

October 25th, 2021, 10:34 am

Perhaps overpay is a bad choice of words but the sentiment is still valid. You argued my point, if it weren't for supply constraints a used premium grinder would cost less than it does today. Also, the previous owner "seasoned" the burrs but they would have done that any ways plus you can't ignore the risk the purchaser takes. We could go on but I see both sides and both are valid opinions. I guess if I could find the right used grinder, I would be all over it. The search continues...

#35: Post by **RyanP** » October 25th, 2021, 12:53 pm

emradguy wrote:I'm not sure "over pay" is accurate for the used market. If you're looking at Kafatek grinders, which essentially sell for the price of a new one, the price is still fair. You're eliminating the difficult process of acquiring a new one, the very long wait, and the need to season the burrs. Those things are worth a premium. The grinder will still last more than your lifetime, in most cases without maintenance other than cleaning needed for many years. That probably goes for the EG-1 as well.

.

Agreed 100% on all of these points. I think purchasing used is actually a better deal in most ways, unless there's some [unlikely] kind of damage to the grinder.

#36: Post by **drH** » October 25th, 2021, 10:26 pm

RyanP wrote:I have owned both a Strietman and a Londinium R at different times for around 3 years each.

The Londinium is just consistent reliable espresso when and how you want it. Walk up and pull. You can pull 6 shots in a row without any temperature issues and each shot will come out exactly the same. I love this machine and don't see myself ever getting rid of it unless a smaller and sleeker option (perhaps the odyssey argos?) comes on the market that performs equally well.

I have a soft spot for the Strietman. It's not as consistent, because it's manual. It's not exactly walk up and pull, because the temperature is running on a cycle. It is what I consider slow espresso, but in the best way possible. You don't have to deal with the quirks of closed boiler manual levers with the CT2. Hitting precise temperatures is easy, you can pull large volume shots, and it has a lever feel superior to what I experienced with a Pavoni or Cremina. It looks amazing on the counter and it pulls fantastic espresso.

Both machines will produce great espresso. The Londinium will do it with efficiency and consistency. The Strietman will provide you one of the most satisfying morning espresso rituals I think you can find in a machine. It just really matters what you're looking for in your experience.

Nice description. I've always had a repressed desire for a Londinium. The only thing holding me back is that I'm concerned it will run too hot for darker roasts. I don't mean oily, but traditional. My current favorite is Blue Bottle Hayes Valley and if it failed there I'd be miserable. That said I do occasionally experiment with lighter roasts and so I wouldn't want to put a thermosiphon restrictor in to permanently lower the temperature. What coffees have you used with the Londinium?

#37: Post by **CoffeeMac** » October 25th, 2021, 11:15 pm

I've gone as dark as Mr Coffee's very dark Neapolitan ( https://mrespresso.com/product/neapolitan-espresso/) on my Compressa, and was able to enjoy the shot. Just brought the PI pressure down to about 2 bar and pulled a 1:1 brew ratio shot. I think it was quite nice for what it was, but I lean more to light roasts for straight espresso and medium roasts for milk drinks. But I wanted to see what I could do with my Londinium right after I got it, and so far I've not found a bean/roast I couldn't handle.

Note also you can also install a flow restrictor if you want even lower effective PI pressure / brew temp.

October 26th, 2021, 6:04 am

RyanP wrote:Agreed 100% on all of these points. I think purchasing used is actually a better deal in most ways, unless there's some [unlikely] kind of damage to the grinder.

Thus the risk the buyer takes.

Anyways, looks like I will be taking that risk, R24 will be here in about two weeks. The Pharos is not the goal, I've been turning that thing for too many years.

#39: Post by **drH** » October 26th, 2021, 6:51 am

harris wrote: Thus the risk the buyer takes.

Anyways, looks like I will be taking that risk, R24 will be here in about two weeks. The Pharos is not the goal, I've been turning that thing for too many years.

Please report back - I'll be interested to hear your impressions.

#40: Post by **emradguy** » October 26th, 2021, 9:11 am

harris wrote: Thus the risk the buyer takes.

The risk is pretty low when you're buying from one of the many regulars here.