Lelit Bianca vs Decent Espresso - Page 7

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
baristainzmking
Supporter ♡

#61: Post by baristainzmking »

JayBeck wrote: To me, this one thing is minimal and the benefits of the DE1 are far greater when weighing pros and cons.
The best part is there is a machine to suit all wants, needs and desires! Aren't first world problems great!!
Julia

Mountain

#62: Post by Mountain »

Petrus wrote:The things I dislike about DE is that you have to pay for all the add-ons. For a machine that is advertised as having all the controls, why is the Skale not included. You end up having to buy the Skale, and the stand. And if you want to plumb, you have the get the refill kits, piece by piece...it just seems kinda ridiculous
Not everyone needs or wants those add-ons, so the thinking is don't make people pay for something they will not use. As an owner, I didn't think it ridiculous. It seems you are at the nitpick stage of your decision-making which is not intended as a criticism, but, rather acknowledging where you at - almost everyone does this with large $$$ purchases.

As others have noted, the Decent has features no other machine has including a 5 minute warm-up which I thought was a must-have for you. If you are not intimidated by technology, this might be the machine for you. You have enough info to know what you are getting. Too bad in this Covid world you cannot get a personal demo - that was what sealed the deal for me. But, if you search for Decent on youtube, there are lots of videos which give you a good perspective. Good luck and even if you go LB, I'm sure you will enjoy your purchase. Decent owners acknowledge the nice things about it.

Petrus

#63: Post by Petrus »

thanks....I agree I am nitpicking....But i thought a machine with all the data that it can give you, they left out weight....which I think is critical.
And to add that parameter to the machine, you can't just use any scale (which most of us have), you have to buy the Skale, and likely the stand that goes with it. It's almost like they forgot about weight when they designed the machine, and users now have to pay to rectify their oversight....

Cup warmer maybe another issue, but this is not as critical.

Anyway, I am still leaning heavily on Decent.....will have a decision soon.

thanks for all the input.

BlueWater

#64: Post by BlueWater »

Petrus wrote:thanks....I agree I am nitpicking....But i thought a machine with all the data that it can give you, they left out weight....which I think is critical.
And to add that parameter to the machine, you can't just use any scale (which most of us have), you have to buy the Skale, and likely the stand that goes with it. It's almost like they forgot about weight when they designed the machine, and users now have to pay to rectify their oversight....

thanks for all the input.
Unfortunately, from the perspective of the consumer, the Skale is one of very few capable scales that share their Bluetooth communication protocol details, which is why you pretty much have to use a Skale for stop-at-weight with Decent. There were hopes and plans to use some big-name scales, but those plans didn't work out. Weighing shots has been part of the design wish list for some time, but so far a robust design for integrating that directly into the machine has proven elusive for a variety of technical reasons.

There are a variety of stands available, but I've had no problems using the Skale directly on top of the drip tray. Because the waste water is discharged below the drip tray cover, the Skale doesn't get wet and I simply remove the Skale along with the shot.

MrEd

#65: Post by MrEd »

Bluewater wrote:
There are a variety of stands available, but I've had no problems using the Skale directly on top of the drip tray. Because the waste water is discharged below the drip tray cover, the Skale doesn't get wet and I simply remove the Skale along with the shot.
As mentioned, you can use the BT-enabled Skale with or without a separate stand. If you go the Skale route, I would wait on getting a stand until you have some experience with it and get a sense of what kind of workflow you want, and also until you can read the various threads about scale stands in the discussion group. You can also use a non-BT scale and stop manually. I did this for the first year that I had my machine. The Decent team has also recently enabled volume-based shot stopping, in which case you can forgo a scale entirely and still hit your target automatically. This feature depends on a physics model of water flow through the entire system. A number of people are having some success with this right now. It seems to work best with simple extraction profiles, and will likely improve as the model gets more accurate. There is a major firmware update on the way that looks promising in this regard, based on data John Buckman has shared elsewhere.

There are two main advantages I've found from using a BT scale. 1. You can have the shot stop at a target weight automatically, freeing up your attention for other things 2. You can see when the first drips hit the cup relatively to progression of your shot. This gives useful information about how effectively the puck was saturated with water before ramping to high pressure for the extraction phase of the shot. You can then adjust the pressure that triggers advancing from preinfusion to extraction accordingly, or add or adjust a pause before advancing.

In theory you can also use the weight data to identify when you have channels spritzing into the cup, as these appear as momentary spikes in the data. In practice I've not found this info particularly useful, as I can also see spatter spots on the walls of the cup when this happens. It can however be helpful when troubleshooting and sharing charts as sometimes this will alert people to potential puck prep issues.

Incognito007

#66: Post by Incognito007 »

Doesn't the decent have the ability to stop the shot at the weight you want? If so, isn't a scale redundant? Just trying to learn about this stuff.

MrEd

#67: Post by MrEd » replying to Incognito007 »

Yes, but the scale is not built into the machine. To stop by weight you have to add a bluetooth-enabled scale that you pair with the machine. You can either put it on the drip tray, or use one of a number of 'adapters' that allow it to sit under the drip tray. Currently the only available scale that works with the Decent machines is the Skale II, made by Atomax (about US $100). Decent is developing their own, but it has been a long process.

User avatar
tcaton

#68: Post by tcaton »

In a recent firmware update, DE added a stop-by-weight feature without requiring a scale (pretty cool feeling to randomly wake up to a more capable machine). It does this by measuring post-preinfusion flow rate. This is not as accurate as using an actual scale, but in my experience, it frequently lands within a gram or two unless the shot goes wildly out of control. That's been good enough for me.

I find this interesting and admirable - they implemented this despite the possibility that it might cannibalize the market for their own (unreleased) DE scale.

Incognito007

#69: Post by Incognito007 »

As i continue to contemplate the decent, i have to say it seems rather incredulous that it does not come with a tamper. Can't help but feel a bit cheated if i were to drop the monies on it. Anyone else feel similar? To top it off, if you order the v2 tamper it ships in August. If you order the machine you get it much sooner. I suppose you could use another tamper in the meantime (i actually don't have a 58mm tamper). A bit of buzz kill imho...

Bunkmil

#70: Post by Bunkmil » replying to Incognito007 »

Are there any machines that come with a tamper ?

Adding a tamper to the package would increase the price for a piece of equipment that most of the buyers already have.