Lelit Bianca vs Decent Espresso - Page 2

#11: Post by **DaveB** » May 21st, 2020, 10:57 am

cheez wrote:The Bianca doesn't need 40 minutes to warm up. It has been scace tested with the result that it is up to temp in 18 minutes, even less if the service boiler is off. It's probably the fastest e61 in that regard. 40min is a gross exaggeration.

With all due respect, I read the entire Bianca user thread and don't recall any such sensational claims of world-beating heatup times (for an E-61). If true, this would make choosing the Bianca over the Pro 700 or Synchronika a no-brainer. That's literally over twice as fast! Did you personally do the Scace testing? If not, can you provide a source for the claim? Sorry, but I just have a hard time believing that the Bianca is somehow able to defy the laws of physics.

May 21st, 2020, 11:05 am

is this an E61 problem? taking a long time to stabilize group head temperature?

It makes a difference for me....as i only have 5-10 minutes in the morning to pull a shot and leave.

Right now my Vivaldi is able to do that (i leave it on 24/7 thought). But i want a machine that can standby and heat up fast

May 21st, 2020, 11:11 am

guydebord wrote:I owned a Bianca before upgrading to the DE1. IMO opinion its all the Bianca is and much, much more. It would be impossible to move back into an e61 or any classic espresso machine. With the Bianca I became very good at dialing flow profiles but it was super frustrating to not have repeatable results even if I tried hard to replicate the paddle. As soon as I saw the v1.3 I went for it, I saw it as a Bianca with better temperature stability and precise repeatability, but once I got it I realized how much more it was, besides flow, I could also control pressure, temperature and time! all during the shot! The DE1 opens a whole new universe of experimentation that leaves all other machines in the 20th century. Simply put, its the most advanced espresso machine in the planet, nothing comes close. Adding to this, the costumer service is out of this world, you can talk to the designers and engineers of the machine almost realtime and perhaps the best thing about it is the community of owners you interact with, the knowledge in the diaspora is IMO worth the price of the machine without the machine, seriously.

I was too worried about built and aesthetics but the machine feels super solid and now I think it looks better than the Bianca... compare them yourself:

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yeah DE1 looks pretty nice. Where did you get the cup holder on the top? Don't see it on their website

#14: Post by **slybarman** » May 21st, 2020, 11:12 am

Petrus wrote:is this an E61 problem? taking a long time to stabilize group head temperature?

It makes a difference for me....as i only have 5-10 minutes in the morning to pull a shot and leave.

Right now my Vivaldi is able to do that (i leave it on 24/7 thought). But i want a machine that can standby and heat up fast

It's a thermal mass issue. You have a big old hunk of brass to heat up. 5-10 minutes for making a drink is not an issue as long as you have the machine come on 30 minutes or so before that - which is very simple with a smart plug.

#15: Post by **liquidmetal** » May 21st, 2020, 11:18 am

I had a Lucca m58 with a needle valve installed (like the Bianca) and I currently have a De1Pro. You can take my Decent from my cold, dead, hands. Far and away more capable, far more user friendly, and much smaller on the counter. The espresso is leagues better on any profile - and you can choose any.

The 5 minute warm up is INSANE. I always see people talk about smart plugs, etc, whatever...inevitably, I would have to wait at some point, whether its because I was driving on my way home and decided I wanted one, a guest asked at 7pm...

The only knock I can give it is I can't steam at the same time.

#16: Post by **shotwell** » May 21st, 2020, 11:19 am

DaveB wrote:With all due respect, I read the entire Bianca user thread and don't recall any such sensational claims of world-beating heatup times (for an E-61). If true, this would make choosing the Bianca over the Pro 700 or Synchronika a no-brainer. That's literally over twice as fast! Did you personally do the Scace testing? If not, can you provide a source for the claim? Sorry, but I just have a hard time believing that the Bianca is somehow able to defy the laws of physics.

I believe it was in Jim Schulman's original review, but it may have been Dave C. I also seem to recall it has been independently confirmed, but I haven't hunted for that info in over a year.

The Bianca accomplishes this by drastically overheating the brew boiler and then letting it drop while the service boiler heats. Once the brew boiler rebounds, the Bianca is ready to pull. I can't taste a difference between an 18 minute start up and an hour, nor can I spot a significant difference outside of the expected variability inherent to manual profiling with a refractometer.

#17: Post by **cheez** » May 21st, 2020, 11:21 am

DaveB wrote:With all due respect, I read the entire Bianca user thread and don't recall any such sensational claims of world-beating heatup times (for an E-61). If true, this would make choosing the Bianca over the Pro 700 or Synchronika a no-brainer. That's literally over twice as fast! Did you personally do the Scace testing? If not, can you provide a source for the claim? Sorry, but I just have a hard time believing that the Bianca is somehow able to defy the laws of physics.

Source: https://www.kaffee-netz.de/threads/leli ... st-1649464

I can translate the posts later if you want. Max is since being consulted by Lelit and contributes to the development of their softwares in the machines.

For me the decision between the Pro 700 and Bianca (and other e61 DBs) was indeed a no brainer.

#18: Post by **slybarman** » May 21st, 2020, 11:25 am

DE1 owners seem quite passionate about the machine. Seems like it must be more than the sum of its parts and something one has to try to fully appreciate.

#19: Post by **Plinyyounger** » May 21st, 2020, 11:49 am

Petrus wrote:is this an E61 problem? taking a long time to stabilize group head temperature?

It makes a difference for me....as i only have 5-10 minutes in the morning to pull a shot and leave.

Right now my Vivaldi is able to do that (i leave it on 24/7 thought). But i want a machine that can standby and heat up fast

No it's not a problem, it's necessary to heat the group to the proper temp for consistency. With whatever machine you buy and you will be happy with either one, just use a automated outlet that turns the machine on for you at the correct time so you won't have to wait for heat up. This is an easy solution for those of us that like our coffee first thing in the morning.

#20: Post by **martianpc** » May 21st, 2020, 11:53 am

Short and sweet. I own both.

Bianca is beautiful, classy, traditional. DE1 is smart, smaller, more technical. For the enthusiastic looking to absolutely maximize each shot and be very controlled and repeatable, buy DE1. IF you want more traditional and manual feeling or will be doing lots of milk steaming, buy Bianca. They both are fantastic in their own way and each have advantages. Start by really deciding if you want the intricate control and techie design or if you prefer the Italian style.