Lelit Bianca vs DE1+ - Page 6

Recommendations for espresso equipment buyers and upgraders.
Davidm

Postby Davidm » Nov 29, 2018, 10:07 pm

FYI, I steam 4 oz of whole milk in 27s on my DE1+ I like milk at 150 degrees F. I have the timer set for 27s. I guess I don't see this as a problem on a home machine (27s vs. 7s for the Lelit). I rarely make drinks for more than 4 people. I also find that single dosing is probably my bottleneck, would get a Sette if I start entertaining for larger crowds - perhaps a 2nd DE... :)

Kilo

Postby Kilo » Dec 06, 2018, 5:58 pm

JonF wrote:I know one goal in espresso machines is consistency. But one aspect that I find appealing in both of these units is that, when desired, you can easily tweak the shot (either by advance programming or by on-the-fly paddle). Consistency is nice, but there are times I start my Vivaldi, with programmed pre-infusion and programed dosage, and just want to try something different. Both the Bianca and the DE1+ fit his scenario without getting too expensive.

I do have a steaming question for anyone. Every AM I need to texture milk for one rather large latte . . . for my wife. I steam 8 oz milk in a 16 oz pitcher. Time is not critical, as I'm in no rush, but can both units handle this rather large amount with good results?

Finally, a mechanical question pertaining to the Bianca. I was just wondering on how the unit (pump and/or plumbing) handles the pressure buildup of running whilst having the flow constricted or even shut down by the needle valve. Does Lelit bleed of pressure somehow?


I had a Vivaldi and went to a Bianca. I can say the steaming is at least as good as with the Vivaldi ( the plumbed one). The Bianca is delivered with two steamtips. A small one which is a bit slow for large pitchers. The big one has a lot of power.

JonF

Postby JonF » replying to Kilo » Dec 06, 2018, 6:27 pm

Thanks, that's great information. Funny how, out of so many options, these two machines are on my list to replace the Vivaldi. Actually,the Vivaldi is kind of a tough act to follow; plumbed in, adjustable line-level pre-infusion, built in timer, easy switch access, easy to turn off the steam boiler after the AM latte for my wife . . . Still going back and forth between the Lelit and the DE1Pro. Not buying till about March next year, so no rush.

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RapidCoffee
Team HB

Postby RapidCoffee » Dec 06, 2018, 6:56 pm

another_jim wrote:This is a hole in the DE1 specification, since it is targeted at straight espresso pullers. For one cappa a day, it might work; for a small shop or cafe, it's a non-starter. Think of it as a superbly programmable shot puller with emergency milk capability.

This is just plain wrong. It takes 15s to steam 90-100ml of milk on the DE1+, which is ideal for a cappuccino. If you want big gulp lattes, go to Starbucks.
John

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rimblas

Postby rimblas » replying to RapidCoffee » Dec 06, 2018, 7:16 pm

Yup, 23s to get 4oz to 130F ish for me.

And that doesn't describe the quality of the microfoam. It does a beautiful job with steam that comes out close to 2 bar and ~1 ml/s. As I understand that's on the dry side to avoid diluting the milk

Oh, and the reason we know the time to the second is that once we know how long it takes to steam certain volume to the desired temperature we just set the timer. Repeatable every time. Is a thing of beauty.

One more, check out Highline Coffee, a coffee cart that uses a DE1PRO. How cool is that? https://www.instagram.com/highlinecoffee/

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another_jim
Team HB

Postby another_jim » Dec 06, 2018, 9:12 pm

I was under the impression that the DE1 cannot pull shots and stream simultaneously. The Bianca does 4 ounces in under 10 seconds at the same time as pulling shots -- and that's on the slow end of double boilers in this price range.

So these are somewhat ridiculous fanboy objections to my point: the DE1 is the most programmable profiling machine; but it is not by any stretch of the imagination a cappa machine when compared to anything at in the same price range. If milk frothing is high on the buyer's specs; the DE1 is not a good choice.
Jim Schulman

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TomC
Team HB

Postby TomC » Dec 06, 2018, 9:24 pm

another_jim wrote:I was under the impression that the DE1 cannot pull shots and stream simultaneously.


It can't. The Cafe model will (like I already clarified earlier in this thread). And that doesn't make the regular DE "bad as a cappa machine" either.

another_jim wrote:So these are somewhat ridiculous fanboy objections to my point: the DE1 is the most programmable profiling machine; but it is not by any stretch of the imagination a cappa machine when compared to anything at in the same price range. If milk frothing is high on the buyer's specs; the DE1 is not a good choice.


It's not any stretch of the imagination, it's just your perception. Not everyone steams and pulls shots simultaneously at home anyway. Many like me, will watch the flow and blonding of the shot, and focus on the milk separately.

Throwing out terms like "fanboy" just comes across as a straw-man argument.

JonF

Postby JonF » Dec 06, 2018, 9:53 pm

Interesting thread--I have never pulled a shot and steamed at the same time. So not a big deal to me. I just need to be able to make one weak latte (8 oz/238ml; 160F) for my wife each morning. Not in a rush. For me it's one Americano first thing then doubles the rest of the day. Either might fit, but the DE1+ or Pro is sounding good.

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another_jim
Team HB

Postby another_jim » Dec 06, 2018, 10:00 pm

Would you recommend a machine that cannot steam and make shots simultaneously, and takes 25 seconds froth 4 ounces of milk, to anyone for whom milk frothing is important? Because it's really cool at something completely different? Is that what a fanboy does; or someone who is seriously considering the needs of the person asking your advice?
Jim Schulman

Bunkmil

Postby Bunkmil » Dec 06, 2018, 10:08 pm

TomC wrote:It's not any stretch of the imagination, it's just your perception. Not everyone steams and pulls shots simultaneously at home anyway. Many like me, will watch the flow and blonding of the shot, and focus on the milk separately.


+1 I owned a hx machine before my DE1+ and I never took the habit of steaming my milk while pulling a shot. I just like to watch my pours! I would be curious to know what's the proportion of home baristas who actually steam milk while they are pulling shots.

So frothing milk is high on my specs and I don't feel I did the wrong choice when I bought my DE1+. I really like my machine but I wouldn't say that I am a fanboy.