Hey,

I've been researching machines for the last couple of weeks, and came to a "conclusion" a nice E61 HX machine such as Pro 500 is what I'm looking for.

Than I saw a mini vivaldi costs about the same. It's a dual boiler, more commercial grade machine - but it's a bit quirky.

Is pro 500 a safer choice for an espresso newbie?

I'm curious what aspect of the mini Vivaldi you find quirky.

I've had my Mini for 6+ years. Great machine and excellent support from Chris Coffee.

53mm basket isn't all that usual on machines in this price range. Pro 500 is certainly more of a looker.

If you're concerned about the 53mm basket from a performance perspective, then you can rest easy in that it works wonderfully, even with 21g doses. I recently went to 21g IMS competition baskets, dosing 20g and pulling 40g shots and I don't remember ever having such wonderful shots with SO beans in the last 10 years of owning my Vivaldi Mini.

I can see how 53mm baskets would be a bit annoying if you have to custom order tampers because most retailers only stock 58mm tampers, or if you buying a bunch of 53mm basket specific accessories like tampers, distribution tools, funnels, and you plan on either (1) upgrading to a 58mm machine in the future, or (2) getting a second 58mm basket machine to use in parallel with the Vivalid (i.e. lever machine or something). In such cases, you'd have to either repurchase or double up on all your basket specific accessories. If you don't foresee yourself going to a 58mm machine anytime in the foreseeable future - should you stick with a Vivaldi, and you're not obsessively upgrading to the latest and greats distribution tool every few months, then this should be a non-issue for you.

As far as looks go, everyone has their own opinion on what is aesthetically pleasing. In conjunction with my recent small upgrades on the Vivaldi, I also added some nice wood panels and portafilters and that certainly has freshened things up for me.

Going back to your original question which started this thread, my Vivaldi Mini has been my first and only machine and I really have no regrets with it for the last 10 years. Granted that I've added every bell and whistle you can possibly think of (i.e. auto-timer, pre-infusion chamber, ShotTimer, bottomless PF, BT Wedge distribution tool, Espro tamper, Lunar scale, Cimbali Max Hybrid grinder), the package as a whole has meant that I can get some very consistently good shots as long as I use high quality, fresh beans.

I'm now really interested in S1. I'm not 100% sure which one I should go with...

Dream or Vivaldi? Mini or regular?

Anyone thinks I should get profitec instead?

I live in Europe, so Chris' coffee is not an option for me.

You bring up a good point about being in Europe. I would recommend going with a brand that can be serviced locally. Ideally in the same town and at least in the same country.

It's not a matter of if, but a matter of when your machine will need servicing. An espresso machine is like a car and things will wear out and/or fail. Unless you're good with electrical trouble shooting and plumbing, I would recommend picking a brand that, at minimum, have a distributor or service center in your country. I've had my machine in the shop 3 times in 10 years and even through the shop was only a few hours drive away, it's still annoying.

If I were to do it all over again, I would be tempted to get the new GS3 MP with conical valve because of the extra flexibility, and there is a local distributor and repair shop in my city. That being said, it cost a few times more than the Vivaldi. It was just not an option for me 10 years ago when I got the Vivaldi because of its price point and alot of reliability problems back when it was first introduced.

We're definitely spoiled with choice these days with dual boiler options but I prefer machines that has been around for a few years so the manufacturer can work out the kinks and refine the design or beef up less reliable components.

Reliability over time could pose a problem, especially with all the electronics that S1 (especially dream) has.

I have a feeling that profitec, being like pretty much every other E61 machine, would be a lot easier to service and find someone (maybe even myself) to repair it when something goes wrong.

Seeing that you're in Slovenia, the closest Spaziale service center is probably in Venice, It. I'm not sure if you can buy the S1 from Spaziale directly but it's a possibility. Venice is reasonably close to Slovenia so it's worth investigating. Profitec is based in Germany so I'm not sure where's your nearest service center. La Marzocco probably has one of the best distribution networks in the world so perhaps the Linea Mini is worth a consideration.

As far as Vivaldi vs Vivaldi Mini goes, it's mainly a matter of whether you are willing to plumb into your kitchen. They're functionally almost identical with exception of pre-infusion where the Vivaldi uses line pressure for pre-infussion whereas the Mini requires an extra pre-infusion chamber add-on. To me, it's a bit like choosing between a sedan and convertable car. Very different use cases and usually it's a pretty clear that the buyer will know exactly which one they prefer and if there's any doubts, go with the Mini as that's the easiest to move around. I see the Mini as being like the sedan - it's the safe choice.

I don't have any experience with the Dream but the Vivaldi is pretty easy to fix. Aside from pumps, solenoids, and water tank sensors which exist on almost every espresso machine, the only 'smarts' in the thing is the main computer board and a separate relay board. Those are basically a drop-in replacement if something goes wrong. It's more a matter of whether you're willing to go in there and do the replacement yourself if needed. The front panel is pretty foolproof and there's really nothing that could possibly break on there. The Dream is a totally different beast when it comes to the front panel.

If you want something you can likely fix yourself, then the Vivaldi or Vivaldi Mini is a better choice. Among the more modern dual-boiler machines, the Vivaldi is probably one of the most user-serviceable machines on the market. It's been on the market for over a decade and there are plenty of parts on the market. For myself personally, I'm fairly comfortable with fixing the electronics, it's the plumbing that scares me more but everyone has different skills so it may not be a concern for you.

I'd love to have linea mini, but it's way out of my price range.

Their locations in Italy aren't exactly close, but certainly doable. I'll contact them and ask about possibility to do that.

So mini vivaldi is a better choice than dream t? Dream appears like a lot better value.