La Marzocco Linea Mini, GS/3, DE1? Unclear on the best direction
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Chadwick
- Posts: 13
- Joined: 3 years ago
Hi everyone -
Long-time lurker here, but I used to be very frequent on CoffeeGeek and other forums. I sold most of my equipment (Isomac Tea, Mazzer Mini) several years ago when I started traveling a lot and just couldn't keep up with everything.
I'd consider myself very experienced in E61, home roasting, tuning the shot, etc. We use a Gaggia super auto now, because my family enjoys their coffee and they don't enjoy the process as much as I do.
I've been doing the usual research, and before I went into that rabbit hole I was planning on getting a GS/3. I've always wanted an LM, so it's for that reason only. That said, the DE1 looks very interesting, and though the underlying quality, history, etc. doesn't appeal to me the ability to fine tune everything does.
Requirements:
Long-time lurker here, but I used to be very frequent on CoffeeGeek and other forums. I sold most of my equipment (Isomac Tea, Mazzer Mini) several years ago when I started traveling a lot and just couldn't keep up with everything.
I'd consider myself very experienced in E61, home roasting, tuning the shot, etc. We use a Gaggia super auto now, because my family enjoys their coffee and they don't enjoy the process as much as I do.
I've been doing the usual research, and before I went into that rabbit hole I was planning on getting a GS/3. I've always wanted an LM, so it's for that reason only. That said, the DE1 looks very interesting, and though the underlying quality, history, etc. doesn't appeal to me the ability to fine tune everything does.
Requirements:
- Dual boiler
- I prefer volumetric, but that's not critical
- Easy temperature control
- Ability to be plumbed in
- Ability to consistently pull 2-5 shots back-to-back, but 90% of the time it's only 2
- Cost isn't really a concern, but I like getting good value for money
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jevenator
- Posts: 640
- Joined: 5 years ago
There's so many DE1 threads you can read through if you want to go down that route. You'll save a several thousand dollars ($4000+?) if you go with a DE1+ that will allow you to get some of the best single dose grinders on the market along with all the fancy gadgets.
I've always wanted an LM and since I demo'd the GS3 MP in the LM place in Seattle I fell in love with the build quality and feel of the machine when I had the BDB at the time. But $7500 is a big chunk to lay down for a machine that is although commercial quality, can also add up in costs in maintenance over 6-8 yrs. After getting the DE1, I have no desire to go for a LM machine and hypothetically speaking, if I wanted a coffee cart or something like that I'd rather just buy 2-3 DE1's than a 2/3 group machine. But there's really nothing wrong with wanted a 75lb tank (GS3) on your countertop either. I'll throw in the Londinium Lever in the loop here as well.
Good value for the money IMO would be the DE1 and the 98mm Ultra grinder from Levercraft. A step down for "best value" would be a modded BDB but the DE1 just looks and feels so much better and you can do so much more easily.
I am biased I guess because that's exactly what I have...but it's true. Most affordable 98mm with amazing alignment + a machine that can pretty much do it all.
I've always wanted an LM and since I demo'd the GS3 MP in the LM place in Seattle I fell in love with the build quality and feel of the machine when I had the BDB at the time. But $7500 is a big chunk to lay down for a machine that is although commercial quality, can also add up in costs in maintenance over 6-8 yrs. After getting the DE1, I have no desire to go for a LM machine and hypothetically speaking, if I wanted a coffee cart or something like that I'd rather just buy 2-3 DE1's than a 2/3 group machine. But there's really nothing wrong with wanted a 75lb tank (GS3) on your countertop either. I'll throw in the Londinium Lever in the loop here as well.
Good value for the money IMO would be the DE1 and the 98mm Ultra grinder from Levercraft. A step down for "best value" would be a modded BDB but the DE1 just looks and feels so much better and you can do so much more easily.
I am biased I guess because that's exactly what I have...but it's true. Most affordable 98mm with amazing alignment + a machine that can pretty much do it all.
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TigerShot
- Supporter
- Posts: 18
- Joined: 4 years ago
We just emerged from the rabbit hole with a GS3 MP after having a Vivaldi for almost a decade. I've always wanted a GS3, so I went in with that bias, but still considered all of the same options you are plus the Slayer and Speedster. In the end we couldn't get away from what we think is a gorgeous piece of industrial design that we enjoy looking at every morning. We ended up going black with the full walnut package.
I love bleeding edge consumer technology, but I didn't see myself geeking out over the profiling capabilities of the DE1, and we aren't fans of the look. We went with the GS3 MP over AV because we wanted the tactile feel of the paddle, and be involved in what has become almost a religious ritual every morning. FWIW: my wife had no issues going from the push button Vivaldi to the MP. She pushes the paddle all the way to left to get 9 bars, and I dialed it in so all she has to do is watch the timer on the display to know when to stop.
There is one aspect of the GS3 that we are in awe over. The steam power coming out of the GS3 is ridiculously powerful compared to the Vivaldi. My wife's time for steaming went from 20-30 seconds to 7-10 with consistently perfect micro foam. Our teenager is even getting in the game, and loves the breve's that he is able to steam.
I am far from an expert at profiling with the MP, but have been tinkering with different beans, and the espressos have been tasting really good. I wish I worked at a coffee shop so I can get the pricey African beans cheaper.
As far as value, that was a consideration of ours as well even though cost wasn't as big a factor as it was when we bought the Vivaldi. I quickly realized that wasn't an issue for a GS3 or LMLM because I was watching nationally for a used GS3 to come on the market for months. When the economy dipped, I thought one may pop up that someone's needed to dump. I only saw a handful come up for sale and the very few that did, their price wasn't enough below a new one for me to pull the trigger, and they were generally all older machines. That tells me that when people buy a LM they are pretty happy with them.
Good luck!!
Steve
I love bleeding edge consumer technology, but I didn't see myself geeking out over the profiling capabilities of the DE1, and we aren't fans of the look. We went with the GS3 MP over AV because we wanted the tactile feel of the paddle, and be involved in what has become almost a religious ritual every morning. FWIW: my wife had no issues going from the push button Vivaldi to the MP. She pushes the paddle all the way to left to get 9 bars, and I dialed it in so all she has to do is watch the timer on the display to know when to stop.
There is one aspect of the GS3 that we are in awe over. The steam power coming out of the GS3 is ridiculously powerful compared to the Vivaldi. My wife's time for steaming went from 20-30 seconds to 7-10 with consistently perfect micro foam. Our teenager is even getting in the game, and loves the breve's that he is able to steam.
I am far from an expert at profiling with the MP, but have been tinkering with different beans, and the espressos have been tasting really good. I wish I worked at a coffee shop so I can get the pricey African beans cheaper.
As far as value, that was a consideration of ours as well even though cost wasn't as big a factor as it was when we bought the Vivaldi. I quickly realized that wasn't an issue for a GS3 or LMLM because I was watching nationally for a used GS3 to come on the market for months. When the economy dipped, I thought one may pop up that someone's needed to dump. I only saw a handful come up for sale and the very few that did, their price wasn't enough below a new one for me to pull the trigger, and they were generally all older machines. That tells me that when people buy a LM they are pretty happy with them.
Good luck!!
Steve
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Chadwick (original poster)
- Posts: 13
- Joined: 3 years ago
Much appreciated. There are so many new options since when I was in the game. I'll take a look at Levercraft as well.jevenator wrote:Good value for the money IMO would be the DE1 and the 98mm Ultra grinder from Levercraft. A step down for "best value" would be a modded BDB but the DE1 just looks and feels so much better and you can do so much more easily.
I am biased I guess because that's exactly what I have...but it's true. Most affordable 98mm with amazing alignment + a machine that can pretty much do it all.
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Stavey
- Posts: 129
- Joined: 4 years ago
I had this same decision awhile back. I ended up with a DE1 and couldn't be happier. As far as I know there isn't a machine out there that even comes close to doing what a DE1 can do. Fact is the DE1 can do whatever the others can and more.
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rktcyntst
- Posts: 67
- Joined: 9 years ago
Hi Steve,TigerShot wrote:We just emerged from the rabbit hole with a GS3 MP after having a Vivaldi for almost a decade. I've always wanted a GS3, so I went in with that bias, but still considered all of the same options you are plus the Slayer and Speedster. In the end we couldn't get away from what we think is a gorgeous piece of industrial design that we enjoy looking at every morning. We ended up going black with the full walnut package.
I love bleeding edge consumer technology, but I didn't see myself geeking out over the profiling capabilities of the DE1, and we aren't fans of the look. We went with the GS3 MP over AV because we wanted the tactile feel of the paddle, and be involved in what has become almost a religious ritual every morning. FWIW: my wife had no issues going from the push button Vivaldi to the MP. She pushes the paddle all the way to left to get 9 bars, and I dialed it in so all she has to do is watch the timer on the display to know when to stop.
There is one aspect of the GS3 that we are in awe over. The steam power coming out of the GS3 is ridiculously powerful compared to the Vivaldi. My wife's time for steaming went from 20-30 seconds to 7-10 with consistently perfect micro foam. Our teenager is even getting in the game, and loves the breve's that he is able to steam.
I am far from an expert at profiling with the MP, but have been tinkering with different beans, and the espressos have been tasting really good. I wish I worked at a coffee shop so I can get the pricey African beans cheaper.
As far as value, that was a consideration of ours as well even though cost wasn't as big a factor as it was when we bought the Vivaldi. I quickly realized that wasn't an issue for a GS3 or LMLM because I was watching nationally for a used GS3 to come on the market for months. When the economy dipped, I thought one may pop up that someone's needed to dump. I only saw a handful come up for sale and the very few that did, their price wasn't enough below a new one for me to pull the trigger, and they were generally all older machines. That tells me that when people buy a LM they are pretty happy with them.
If you decide to go with a LM, and would like to know where I bought mine after shopping around, DM me and I can share that with you.
Good luck!!
Steve
I'm 10.5 years in running a Vivaldi II, and was able to suppress the itch to upgrade in 2017 to a GS3 or LMLM. I'm looking at the LMLM now, and am curious on what you did with your Vivaldi? If you're willing to share, let me know if I can DM. Thanks!
- Mike
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TigerShot
- Supporter
- Posts: 18
- Joined: 4 years ago
Mike,
I went back today to see when I ordered the Vivaldi and it was almost 11 years now. I told my wife we should keep it for our teenage son and let him take it to college. She wants it out of the house though, so I am going to try to sell it here or on marketplace. I kept the shipping box all these years thinking I may have to send it back to CC for repairs, but I always managed to do them myself. Since you are in Seattle, I bet you could do Fb marketplace and sell yours pretty easily.
Looking at some previous selling prices here, it looks like the range will be $750-$800. Do you have any thoughts on what we can get for them?
Good luck on the LMLM!! If we leaned toward a more contemporary aesthetic, that would have been our choice over the GS3. When I was doing my researching, it came across to me as a great no-nonsense rock-solid machine.
Steve
I went back today to see when I ordered the Vivaldi and it was almost 11 years now. I told my wife we should keep it for our teenage son and let him take it to college. She wants it out of the house though, so I am going to try to sell it here or on marketplace. I kept the shipping box all these years thinking I may have to send it back to CC for repairs, but I always managed to do them myself. Since you are in Seattle, I bet you could do Fb marketplace and sell yours pretty easily.
Looking at some previous selling prices here, it looks like the range will be $750-$800. Do you have any thoughts on what we can get for them?
Good luck on the LMLM!! If we leaned toward a more contemporary aesthetic, that would have been our choice over the GS3. When I was doing my researching, it came across to me as a great no-nonsense rock-solid machine.
Steve
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Chadwick (original poster)
- Posts: 13
- Joined: 3 years ago
Down the rabbit hole I go..
I was really set on a non-E61, but then I see the ECM Synchronika with flow control. I was set on a saturation group, primarily for better temperature stability and just the fact that I've never had one.
I do love the looks of the Linea Mini, I admit, but it seems it's lacking in a lot of features of machines half the price.
The Clive Lucca A53 looks pretty nice too.
I have no idea which direction to go
I was really set on a non-E61, but then I see the ECM Synchronika with flow control. I was set on a saturation group, primarily for better temperature stability and just the fact that I've never had one.
I do love the looks of the Linea Mini, I admit, but it seems it's lacking in a lot of features of machines half the price.
The Clive Lucca A53 looks pretty nice too.
I have no idea which direction to go
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Randy G.
- Posts: 5340
- Joined: 17 years ago
Go to my website and check out these three chapters on my blog to see how I came to the decision to eliminate the LM and other possible choices and settled on the Decent:
159 - On Choosing A New Espresso Machine - Part One
160 - On Choosing A New Espresso Machine - Part Two
161 - Consistency, Control, Technology, and the March of Time
TLDR; The Decent can be a set-and-forget experience, or can give you the opportunity to change brewing parameters to an extent that no other machine can match.
159 - On Choosing A New Espresso Machine - Part One
160 - On Choosing A New Espresso Machine - Part Two
161 - Consistency, Control, Technology, and the March of Time
TLDR; The Decent can be a set-and-forget experience, or can give you the opportunity to change brewing parameters to an extent that no other machine can match.
EspressoMyEspresso.com - 2000-2023 - a good run, its time is done
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Jeff
- Team HB
- Posts: 6906
- Joined: 19 years ago
Everybody gets one emotional-rejection in their decision process. I can't really justify why I'm not impressed by the LMLM. Maybe it's that it's styled to look like a Linea, but really isn't one. Maybe it's that I lusted after a GS3 when it first came out. The GS3 MP nearly grabbed me when I upgraded. Dunno, it's a feeling and I haven't used a LMLM myself. People who own them or have used them think they're great, including several whose opinions I respect greatly. I know that puts me in the same category as those who don't want a BDB on the counter because they don't like the way it looks.
The DE1 that I ended up with has taken my skills up several notches with its ability to "see" when changes in my technique have improved or worsened the flow during extraction. Its flexibility and repeatability have given me more confidence to work with challenging coffees and explore new experiences. Emotionally, both my wife and I appreciate that it isn't a behemoth on the counter.
Would I be happy with a GS3 MP? Probably so. That I've got some budget for coffee and potentially a high-end flat in the coming years runs through my head as I revisit my own, personal decision.
The DE1 that I ended up with has taken my skills up several notches with its ability to "see" when changes in my technique have improved or worsened the flow during extraction. Its flexibility and repeatability have given me more confidence to work with challenging coffees and explore new experiences. Emotionally, both my wife and I appreciate that it isn't a behemoth on the counter.
Would I be happy with a GS3 MP? Probably so. That I've got some budget for coffee and potentially a high-end flat in the coming years runs through my head as I revisit my own, personal decision.
