Great thread. I've had my eye on a speedster for literally a decade, and once again am considering jumping in as an "upgrade" from my R91 which I've been running for about 5 years.

Not necessarily expecting a change in output or performance as the R91 is a very capable saturated group machine. But rather the "experiential" factor, and the sheer collectibility of the speedster. You've gotta have your hobbies right?

Couple of questions of my own if that's ok:

Is the steam valve actuator a "sprung valve" or a screw down? I see that there is also the option of a flip lever, but these don't look as nice IMHO.

I've also heard that the PPIC improvements in 2020 mean that the Idromatic is less of a benefit, and may not be worth the extra $. Any thoughts on this?

BaristaBoy E61 wrote: I don't know that KvdW introduced any meaningful changes in the current 2020 version from previous versions, I doubt it.

These are apparently the changes:

MAIN CHANGES MODEL 2020 COMPARED TO MODEL 2014
In order to maintain the iconic looks of the machine, most changes to the Speedster are not visible from the outside. Nearly all brass components have been replaced with stainless steel such that water flowing from pump to coffee-cup will no longer come in contact with brass parts. Connecting the machine to water mains is facilitated with a push-in fitting on the machine and improved pump-cable plug. Mix-water temperature can now be adjusted, without opening the machine. By relocating electronics in the machine we expect extended life-span of these components. The volume of the progressive pre infusion cylinder is increased (with 17% from 24 to 28 ml) and the single spring has been replaced with a dual-spring set-up that allows for an even smoother pressure increase to a somewhat higher pre-infusion pressure before pump-pressure is applied onto the coffee-bed. The steam boiler pressure gauge is taken out. As before, the steam temperature can be read from the temperature controller display. Finally, the brew lever has been strengthened, less holes and 30% thicker stainless steel.

If you look at a 2020 model & the previous version side by side with the covers off about the only parts that didn't change or move are the 2 boilers. The full size SSRs that were previously mounted across the rear on a long heat sink plate have been replaced with a block of mini SSRs located up front that take up the space of one of the old ones. All of the plumbing on the right side has been revised and simplified. The steam boiler gauge mentioned above sadly disappeared back in 2016 or so.

lagoon wrote:Great thread. I've had my eye on a speedster for literally a decade, and once again am considering jumping in as an "upgrade" from my R91 which I've been running for about 5 years.

Not necessarily expecting a change in output or performance as the R91 is a very capable saturated group machine. But rather the "experiential" factor, and the sheer collectibility of the speedster. You've gotta have your hobbies right?

I did have an opportunity to have a drink made on a 2-group R91 by a highly competent barista at a local Roastery. We did buy the same beans to try at home and much preferred the drinks made on the Speedster. That might be due to the uniqueness of the Speedster's preinfusion system, not to mention the Idromatic possibly contributing towards a better, smoother taste. My observations and opinion are highly antidotal, especially when all the possible variations due to milk used and milk preparation are taken into effect. However, I'm still going with the Speedster. My wife strongly concurs. She used to be very discreet with her commentaries out at cafés if the coffee is not as good as at home - but not since Speedster! She's now become, shall we say, 'Unfiltered'. Maybe it's the caffeine...

The steam valve is spring closed, about ¼-turn is all that is required to fully open or close. I personally see no reason for choosing the joy stick version that I image would be much harder to control the steam with when using the steam boiler at the factory default setting of 2.4Bar. That's a lot of pressure! The rotary spigot offers more control that is needed to not blow a 50cl pitcher of steaming hot milk in your face. The only way to really tame that steam with joy sticks would be to lower steam boiler temperature thus lowering its pressure to make it more 'manageable'; of course this would reduce the available steam.

I have never used nor imagined a more fluid, silky-smooth rotary steam control than that of the Speedster. It's 'Miles Davis' smooth.

Regarding the Idromatic, I think it's useful and makes a difference, how much is hard to pin down as the only machines I can compare to are those KvdW out in cafés where there are just too many variables. JohnB is in a better position answer that question. As for myself, once I'm this far down that rabbit hole I'd sooner be sorry I bought it than sorry I didn't when I had the chance; kind of like a nice hat.

BaristaBoy E61 wrote:
I don't know that KvdW introduced any meaningful changes in the current 2020 version from previous versions, I doubt it.

To be clear, I was referring only to changes that might affect warmup time. I became aware of the electronic and plumbing configuration changes when comparing service manuals. I was quite surprised actually and really glad ours is the 2020 version. I'm sure the 2020 version is easier to work on, that the latest version Stork controllers and mini SSR are best. I've not seen smaller SSRs that can handle that much power.

I don't really miss the steam pressure gauge, although at first I did. I'd rather have it than not but there's no way I'm going to blow through enough steam to make a difference. Although, I keep an eye on the steam PID when heating up cups with hot water that I also do to be sure I'm cycling water from the steam boiler. I'll monitor the temperature drop on the steam boiler PID and whether the display decimal point is flashing that indicates the heater elements are 'ON'. Not having the 'Low-Amp' feature always means both steam boiler elements are on simultaneously - even when the brew boiler element is 'ON'. The only value that I see in the 'Low-Amp' option is if your electrical panel and entrance lacks capacity, perhaps if you live in an apartment or a condo. However, lower wattage means longer warmup time. Total accumulated wattage used over time should be basically no different and of no consequence other than requiring a smaller capacity circuit breaker; wire gauge should be the same so that it's 'full-amp' ready.

I do miss a brew boiler gauge that indicates static water pressure even when the machine is 'OFF'. I cannot monitor input water line-pressure at the machine as the pressure gauge only indicates pressure at the puck or blind basket and nothing else. Small price to pay for a feature that few machines have. Our regulated pressure gauge is in the basement along with the water filtration system.

Speedster is 240vac with 20amp GFCI breaker. Hookup with water supply, filter system, drain and dedicated 20amp 120vac GFCI circuit for grinder can be pretty pricey!

I'd sure like to hear from someone with a LM Leva X.

I'm sure the 2020 version is easier to work on, that the latest version Stork controllers and mini SSR are best. I've not seen smaller SSRs that can handle that much power.

I don't believe the physical size is the limit, it's the heat that's the problem. I occasionally use FETs rated for over 100 amps that are about 3/8" square, but if you want to use them to control 100 amps, you best provide a suitable heatsink.

All true.

I have worked with semiconductors on liquid cooled heatsinks but so far anyways, have not seen a smaller SSR than that in the Speedster.
Perhaps they do exist.