The Vesuvius has Programmable brew pressure profiling, like the bigger La Marzocco machines. The GS/3 with the manual paddle allows some pressure profile surfing but it is all done by hand , not exactly reproducible. How important is Programmable brew pressure profiling to taste? These are both double boiler machines. This reviewer Vesuvius Espresso Machine Review reviews the basics of the machine.
This reviewer (Vesuvius has landed) mentions that the pressure profile control is another variable that leads to more botched espressos than any improvement.

skypickle wrote:This reviewer (Vesuvius has landed) mentions that the pressure profile control is another variable that leads to more botched espressos than any improvement.

And he pulls beautifully profiled shots on both and on Synesso machines and consistently, too. Practice ...

skypickle wrote:The Vesuvius has Programmable brew pressure profiling, like the bigger La Marzocco machines. The GS/3 with the manual paddle allows some pressure profile surfing but it is all done by hand , not exactly reproducible. How important is Programmable brew pressure profiling to taste?

Programmable versus manual pressure profiling isn't necessarily important to taste. Which is preferable in usage depends on usage. If routinely pulling different coffees manual may make more sense, if pulling a bunch of one coffee then moving on to another programmable may make more sense. That said manual pressure profiling can be virtually as reproducible as programmed pressure profiling but takes greater attention during the shot as well as practice and learned skill.

These are both double boiler machines. This reviewer Vesuvius Espresso Machine Review reviews the basics of the machine.
This reviewer (Vesuvius has landed) mentions that the pressure profile control is another variable that leads to more botched espressos than any improvement.

I was the OP of the 2nd thread mentioned and I did not say pressure profile control is another variable that leads to more botched espressos than any improvement. I said something more akin to a new untested profile for a given coffee will result in a different shot outcome, maybe better than typical straight to 9bar maybe worse. I've also said that until someone is highly competent and consistent on a non-pressure profiling machine adding pressure profiling to the equation is probably not a good idea.

Up until a year and a half or so ago I was a skeptic to the benefits of shot pressure profiling. I didn't know what I hadn't experienced but I listened to others reports and finally dipped my toes in. After working with pressure profiling a lot on Synesso Cyncra, Vesuvius, GS3 MP w/Strada mod and Synesso Hydra w/adjustable pump bypass I can say with absolute certainty many coffees, especially lighter roasts, can greatly benefit from pressure profiling.

Mike, my tastebuds agree. When you've got the time to profile a shot of one of your coffees, it's always a treat.

skypickle wrote:The Vesuvius has Programmable brew pressure profiling, like the bigger La Marzocco machines. The GS/3 with the manual paddle allows some pressure profile surfing but it is all done by hand , not exactly reproducible.

You can also switch profiles on the Vesuvius while using them, creating something akin to making coffee with an EP. Say profile 1 is 3Bar and profile 2 is 9Bar. You can select profile 1, start the shot by flipping the E61 lever and tap the screen again -this will display the profiles again- if you see coffee or think pre-infusion was long enough you tap on profile 2 and the extraction continues with 9 bar until you drop the E61 lever. The shot timer continues to run from the time you raise the E61 lever until you drop it. (Writing this down is a lot more work and sounds more complicated than actually switching the profile is ... it really is very simple to do.)

As to the taste - I think with introducing any variable comes a risk of bad tasting coffee. Too little or too much coffee in the basket will do that already for you. Or setting a temperature. Or (not) cleaning the machine. Also remember that you do not have to change any variable when you find something that suites you. (For instance: I like a clean machine, but I do not like detergent in my coffee ) You just have more and easier accessible control over the pressure on the Vesuvius than on most other machines. Control meaning just that, you don't necessarily always fiddle with it. And on the flip side of the risk of bad tasting coffee - controlling any variable also can lead to good and great tasting coffee.

Pressure profiling is icing on the cake for me . You need the knowledge and basic skills of understanding how to get a good extraction , decent prep , and what changing the standard variables does to a cup ...plus you have to have a great grinder and great coffee ...
Once you have a grip of all that , let the fun begin. One it's own , pressure profiling is no magic bullet to super tasty coffee though .
Gs3 v Vesuvius
The gs3 will steam better and longer - I prefer the look of a gs3 . Ive had custom wood and metal done for my Vesuvius though so its more to my liking now ...In my limited experience of using a gs3 and strada, I've found that using the paddle to profile , can be " another skill " to learn , of where to nudge it and how it responds. This may appeal to you , it may no....
Either machine will make great coffee , given the right ingredients and operator

Mrboots2u wrote:Either machine will make great coffee , given the right ingredients and operator

Which of course applies to most upscale machines on the market. Even Miss Silvia (and her many other entry-level competitors) can produce great results, though she won't make things too easy for you. It is more about knowing what (and how) to do with the machine at hand (the other day I went to a bar that had a GB/5 and a Robur, their espresso in all its staleness and bitterness was closer to used dishwater than good coffee).

I'm not saying that I personally would choose Silvia over the two mentioned in the topic though.

Is there enough market time (Vesuvius) to answer the question of which unit, GS/3 or Vesuvius, is more electro-mechanically reliable and/or less costly to own from a repair and input of parts perspective?

No and yes. Out the gate the GS3 MP will cost more for regular PM due to required group o-ring rebuilding every 6 months (LM recommended) to a year.

Compass Coffee wrote:No and yes. Out the gate the GS3 MP will cost more for regular PM do to required group o-ring rebuilding every 6 months (LM recommended) to a year.

As a data point, mine went over 1.5 years old with no leaks. One user here (Cellino EVO or something like that) had gone 3 years without leaks before he replaced the seals. Also, though not yet proven, LM is shipping out new machines with the new seals as mentioned in their tech bulletin #101 found here. You can also read more about it in the thread here on HB - La Marzocco Paddle Update. IF they really do last as long as they are saying, I'll be looking at rebuilds once every 6+ years or more. Only time will tell if that is true. At the 6 months you mention, that's once every two years with the new seals given the lifespan is rated as being 4x as long.

I was dying to have a peek inside, so last week I installed the $70 retrofit kit. Other than the seals now being flat and the spacers being polished, I didn't see anything revolutionary. Pretty easy rebuild...much easier than I expected.

Just food for thought.