Hi Everyone,

I've been running the Duetto (v. II) for the last few years and am considering an 'upgrade' to the La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi II. I'm wondering if any of you have experience with an E61 group machine as well as the Vivaldi II (or similar La Spaziale models) and can share your feedback.

Any ideas/advice are welcome - thanks!

Why would you want to move from a 58mm E61 group to the Vivaldi's 53mm group? Most folks move in the opposite direction. Having owned an S1V2 I'm curious why you would consider the move an upgrade??

The person who services my machine has told me (repeatedly) that in his opinion the E61 is decent, but that the Vivaldi II is a better design (horizontal motor/pump orientation, better internal components, and lasts longer). I heard similar feedback from a seller who is known and respected by people on these forums.

I had always been of the opinion, like you, that the E61 group was a quality machine, which is why I used the quotes on "upgrade"
The other machine I've had my eye on is the ECM Synchronika. The reason for my post is to get feedback from people like you who have used the S1VII.

What did you like/dislike JohnB? Any comparisons you can draw?

Based on the number of Vivaldi owners that had to deal with corrosion on the inner motor bearing/shaft caused by the pump leaking into the cavity between the two, triac failures, ect. I doubt the Vivaldi is all that much better built/designed then the E61 dual boiler units it competes with. Having owned both the Vivaldi & various other 58mm group machines I'd never go back to a 53mm group as my daily driver.

If you really want to upgrade consider a machine with a saturated brew group. If you just want something different/new in the same price range there are some nice spring levers available. If you are choosing between the Vivaldi & the ECM I'd go for the ECM.

Thanks John. I was looking at the La Marzocco Linea Mini, but I just can't get myself to spend $5K on an espresso machine. I appreciate your feedback.

Anyone else out there have thoughts?

I too have owned both the Vivaldi and both HX and DB E61 machines. Interestingly enough I bought Johns vivaldi from him. Its a solid machine, but I eventually went back to 58mm E61, and I wouldnt stray from that again. Im of the same opinion, between the La Spaziale and the ECM, Id go ECM. A true upgrade would be to something with a saturated group. Also possibly one of the E61 pressure profiling machines, though not everyone will say just because it has pressure profiling its an "upgrade". Currently an owner of the Duetto II, and while its not the latest and greatest E61 with some of the new bells and whistles, its still a hard machine to upgrade from unless you're going to enter to the world of the super elite. Speedster, Synesso, La Marzocco etc. If I was gonna buy a machine right now in the same kind of category, id be looking at the Vetrano 2b Evo, the Synchronika, one of the new Bezzera dual boilers with the non-E61 groups, or the Andreja Profile. Thatd be my short list.

sorry if this is a newbie question, but why is the 58mm better? I'm gonna need to do some research based on all your suggestions Jman

OK guys, you talked me into sticking with the E61 Group. thanks for the info.

I also found this nice read on 53mm vs 58mm, which does point out some advantages of the 53:
https://clivecoffee.com/blogs/learn/53m ... rtafilters