Obiwan wrote:I'm not going to be a good influence here but will just share some thoughts for you to ponder. I was in the exact same situation 2 months ago. Posted my 8 year old LS for sale and sold the next day so that helped me justify the "upgrade". Anyway, using the same grinder, water quality, and beans that I have 1000+ "pulls" on with the LS (of note a forgiving medium/dark from Vivace), I can say - subjectively - they taste better on the LMLM per the entire family. A Latte is no longer requested in my house - only espresso shots and cortados. This was never the case with the LS. Why? Not sure but I would say my puck prep is more fastidious because the machine demands this of you while the 3s preinfusion (I used the same) on the LS gives you some wiggle room. The LMLM is built like a tank and looks stunning on my counter where it fits with ease. Wife approved! I would buy this machine again but because the work "stock" is somehow synonymous with "average" in my warped mind I will definitely modify it with a needle valve, preinfusion chamber, and smaller gicleur. (See Titan or Coffee Machinist) One option for you to consider: post your LS for sale and buy the DE1, explore the different profiles, find the one you gravitate to based on your predominant bean(s) selection and then buy that machine. Then sell the DE1. Or keep them both! Hope that helps.

Evil post alert!!!!

Per your suggestion, I've looked into the Decent to see what that offers. It's very compelling to see that it's effectively an emulator of so many other machines across the spectrum with interesting attributes. The geek in my would totally be into this, but I'm either getting old or just don't equate my espresso experience with the latest whiz bang tech, but I think I'd rather stick with my S1, honestly.

I stare at screens all the time, and I think there's something to it for me for the tactile experience when making my drink. The click of relays, pushing buttons, spinning knobs gives it an artisan feeling to me - and that's value add to me.

Not to take away from the capabilities of the Decent - it appears to provide so much in terms of exploration, but I don't think that's where my experience is aligned. Plus, it's been awhile since I've adjusted anything on my S1. Just recently is the first time I've tweaked the temp for a blend that I haven't gotten in a while...

Maybe if the packaging was a bit more traditional, and the machine was plumbable with a rotary pump, it would be of greater interest.

Thanks for expanding my knowledge of espresso machines in 2020. The last time I got the itch, I was looking at the GS/3 and considering a single group Slayer. Being a few years removed, I realize that the capabilities that come with them would be lost on me since I haven't tinkered. Maybe it's because I don't currently have those capabilities, but I think it's more that I've only got so much time to devote to the espresso world given me being the sole coffee drinker in the home.

This potential LMLM move will probably look questionable to future me, or it may be one that I ask 'why didn't I do this sooner?!?'

I appreciate your insight!

I was in the same shoes as you for the past several months. Trying to decide if I wanted a Bianca, Decent or LMLM. It all came down to if I wanted to profile or not. If I wanted to profile I might as well go full-on with the Decent, so that took the Bianca out of the picture.

As much as I love tech and tinkering, I wanted my espresso set up to be more analog like you do. I also didn't want to stress about chasing that extra percent (Audio is my other hobby and I know what the rabbit hole is like.)

I just wanted a machine that can consistently deliver shots and the only variable being down to the user and the LMLM fit that bill. Not to say the Decent can't do the same though as you can just use the same profile every morning and get your shot with a press of a button.

Down the line though, I would really like to play around with a Decent when it matures a bit more or if I decide I do want to dip my toes into profiling and all. I love how they embrace community contribution and their forum for owners seem really awesome from what I've read.
I'm a big fan of opensource so that is something love seeing. I've pretty much watched all of the videos on Decent's youtube channel and love seeing John talk about what's been going on (along with the Instagram updates).

For now though, I think I will be really content with the LMLM. Every owner of the LMLM I've talked to has no complaints and loves their machine, it's rare to see an owner not like it. I placed an order a few days ago and I can't wait for it to come in.

Definitely a great machine. I was very happy with it for 3 years now. You cant go wrong with it. Maybe only the GS3 MP will be "beter", but probably out of your reach.

sadbox wrote:I don't necessarily agree here. Flat profiles *can* work for darker roasts but that certainly doesn't mean they are optimal for them.

A fundamental part of espresso is that as the extraction happens the puck degrades. As the puck degrades you end up with less resistance. The only way to maintain 9 bar when puck resistance decreases is to increase flow. This increases the likelihood of channels, even in dark and medium roasts.

From my POV it's fairly obvious that a flat-pressure, increasing flow profile is bad. You can use a profiler to maintain a fixed flow and let pressure naturally decline, similar to a spring lever. It also gives you the flexibility to use more interesting preinfusion schemes if you do want to venture in to light roasts.

Thank you!
This is probably the clearest description I have read about the interplay between pressure, flow, and the puck.
While pressure and flow in a fixed container may have a seemingly 1:1 correlation when filling, once you add a puck and flow out of that container the equation becomes more artisan with most machines and algorithmic with the DE. Both are great we just have to pick our passion.

Caveat - I didn't read the entire thread. But when we went to shop for a machine to replace our 10 year old LS we went to LM in Seattle and went to their bar where you can try all the machines.

No, for functionality
Maybe for looks - your personal decision
Question to ask yourself - Will you regret this later? What else do you want to spend your $ on. Grinder? 50 yo Whiskey? You get the point.

When we went to LM we didn't see any great functionality difference other than looks. At the time our LS was working fine. My wife and were both retiring in the next few years and we were going to set up for a small biz. This next machine was in part retirement gift. In the Seattle shop we moved on from the Mini fairly quickly, instead things about a GS AV or MP. In the end we didn't go with LM at all, but that's not relevant to your question.

Good luck with your decision.

FYI/FWIW: I couldn't imagine nor want to return to a non-profiling espresso machine. I am typically in the dark side of medium roast levels to "light" and everything in between.

Just as pre-wetting the grounds apart of pour over brewing helps extract more goodness...having the ability to pre-infuse the puck is very, very useful to what arrives in the cup. That certainly doesn't mean you NEED to have a profiling machine but I wouldn't want to go back to fixed pressure/flow output.

And you're not always tinkering with the settings & grind. Most beans of similar origin and roast levels will respond similarly to machine & grinder settings.

Good luck with your decision.

I hope you enjoy yours!