Just a quick note, I was confusing the Lagom grinders with the DF64 when it came to bellows. My bad! So many grinders...

Production pics on their blog look like things are moving along. Not sure I'm really looking for manual machines, but I'm always curious about hearing about new products that might change the game.

If you consider the CC1 and plan to use the steam I would strongly advise that you use non-scaling water. I used to have a small collection at my desk of blown-open CC1 thermoblocks that were damaged by scale buildup. It does not take much.

Good water is important for any espresso machine of course, so the CC1 isn't alone in being damaged by scale. Steam thermoblocks seem to be a little more prone to full on failure in the case of blockage. I've heard similarly about the Quick Mill Silvano Evo for instance.

Were you having issues with the original? Or the relaunched version? Either way, good to know ahead of time. Thanks for mentioning it.

Fortunately, we have soft water here. Very little scale build-up on our kettles over the years. But if we move back to the midwest, which we're considering, we had much harder water there. I'd want to be a lot more diligent about descaling to avoid issues.

"Non-scaling" water is another change -- rather than regularly descaling a machine, selecting or mixing water that doesn't have a propensity to scale is felt by many to be a better choice.

My big concern with this would be wasted water. I have a reverse-osmosis system I bought some time back for an aquarium, but those really reject a lot of water in the process of producing pure water. I wouldn't have an issue with working up my own water chemistry, if it weren't for that side of making pure water.

Or are you referring to just treating water to cut down on hardness using something acidic?

We have an RO system for our aquariums (58 gal total) and espresso and the aquariums take so much more water than the espresso machine. Totally worth it to avoid the headaches of scale in the machine as well as better tasting water. Easy to add the minerals you want for espresso (rpalvis recipe popular here).

My first espresso machine was a Silvia and I'd take our Robot any day over it. It's actually a lot easy to use than the Silvia, if you can believe it. No learning required. And even though I steam milk for nearly every drink I'd still rather find another way to do that than deal with a single boiler unit again.

But also agree that the good grinders are totally what makes the difference. Niche plus Robot is awesome. Or save and get a double boiler and be really happy with the whole experience. I wouldn't bother with anything between the Robot and dual boiler. Might be a minority opinion though.

In some areas you can select non-scaling bottled water. Around here it is about the same cost as distilled, $1 a gallon or a bit more. If you aren't flushing an HX every shot, a gallon should last a while, maybe 20-40 shots? I now buy RO/DI water from a dispenser at Whole Foods market at $0.49 a gallon, as I recall.

I just watched a review of the Robot, and I have to say... the Robot has an interesting appeal to it. It's a really cute-looking machine that would look great on a countertop. It's not some monolithic square box made of stainless or plastic. I dig it. It's neat-looking. It's simple. There's not much to break or go wrong. And James Hoffmann really liked the shots he got from it. (Granted, with a Niche grinder, but still...) The lower cost would also leave room to go for a higher-end grinder to really get the best shots from it.

I ended up with a Robot after going through a dozen machines. So happy with it that I sold all the other machines, some several times the price.

The most value for money these days is probably a Flair Neo though. Unscrew the pressure device and you can pull shots of more or less the same quality. A little bit more work to use as pre-heat is mandatory and the build and feel isn't as good - but the shot quality is there. It's also not as demanding of the grinder in my experience. In the end I didn't keep mine but it's not a bad choice.

MrSpiffy wrote:Were you having issues with the original? Or the relaunched version? Either way, good to know ahead of time. Thanks for mentioning it.

This would have been the version 1 and 1.5 era. I don't recall if I was still around at Prima when they updated to version 2. I also wasn't aware of the relaunch, so while I don't know if they have updated the thermoblock design I would still caution that it's best to prevent scale from forming there in the first place.

For water, I personally use a Zerowater pitcher to take my tap (ca 130-150 ppm) down to zero and then mix minerals back in. There is no waste but the filters do need replacing. My first lasted about eight months for coffee and general use. If you would like to use RO as you already have it, you could always collect and repurpose the wastewater for other uses like watering plants.