Is Meticulous right for me ?

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
Chura
Posts: 57
Joined: 10 years ago

#1: Post by Chura »

I'm long time La Spaz owner, 10 years now probably, love it. I love the body and thickness and more fanboy of traditional espresso. This is why I also learned that Decent Espress is not my cup of tea, did I get it right?

Now, I see that Meticulous is making progress, while I was click away from getting it on Kickstarter back then, I see the price is still reasonable (1/3 off Decent!). But will it work for me and my espresso characteristics?
Also, we drink 50% espresso's, 50% Milk based, how convenient do you think the milk accessory they develop is compared to boiler based one?

Lastly, and I guess critical taught, I use Baratza Vario, I keep reading its very capable grinder. will it limit me next to the Meticulous ? (i have Timemore 078s on the way too)

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Jeff
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#2: Post by Jeff »

The La Spaziale is known to be a solid machine that performs well for traditional espresso. What are you looking to improve on from there?

If you enjoy traditional espresso, what about the Meticulous attracts you?

It seems like having to use a second machine for half of your drinks as well as needing to preheat water in a kettle doesn't seem like a smooth, simple workflow.

The Vario with ceramic burrs is a reasonable grinder for traditional espresso. There are several that I think outperform it at moderate prices (well under US$1,000) today.

Chura (original poster)
Posts: 57
Joined: 10 years ago

#3: Post by Chura (original poster) »

I'm trying to improve:
1. Look/Feel/Size on counter, very important.
2. taste, while I like what I get, I think it can be better.
3. Repetitiveness, sometimes I it's miss & hit without me knowing why. I read that DE is very capable of Repetitiveness and Meticulous should be somewhat the same.

Having kettle nearby that is near boil is fine for me, since I use it for tea, some cooking and americano. so maybe it's not that bad?
Vario with steel burrs will be better fit for such machine?

DaveC
Posts: 1774
Joined: 17 years ago

#4: Post by DaveC »

Chura wrote:But will it work for me and my espresso characteristics?
Also, we drink 50% espresso's, 50% Milk based, how convenient do you think the milk accessory they develop is compared to boiler based one?
From what I saw at host 23, and your use of the words "we drink"....I would say probably not. If you watch my unedited video carefully, you will see even with water at 71C it was about 2m 25s to get to 89C for a shot...from room temperature it would be a lot longer. When I mentioned this on HB , someone said ah no version 10 will be faster than that etc.. etc.. meticulous made their own video before V8 which was the one I saw, and at that time for an earlier model, they were saying around 1m 30s from 70C? and 4 minutes from room temp in Jan 23, for a model much earlier than V8 I saw.
If you watch my video from Host, that definitely wasn't what I saw?

ultimately, if the shots are for you alone then it's great, if you have guests...or regularly need to make 2 or 3, possibly more shots, the experience "might" get old fast. Unless of course you don't care about drinking your shots together. It definitely won't do well in a group gathering where all the guests want coffee. If 4 people and you want coffees, you will be in the kitchen prepping them for at least 25m+ due to the workflow. I am not sure...but I don't believe the portafilter/group is actively heated when the machine is being used, which "might" mean it cools things down more than one expects?

I think it's an incredibly innovative machine, unique in it's operation, looks great and it looks good fun, great app etc......but it won't suit everyone. I suspect shortly after people start getting machines a number of them will come up on the used market.

My video at Host Milan 23
P.S. I am sure you would want to use it with a kettle, especially if you have guests

P.P.S. I did wonder why they used a temp controlled kettle at 70C to demo it, especially as they would want much faster heating at an exhibition. You mentioned using an ordinary kettle and it's possible they didn't use one because if the water is too hot it messes with the shot producing process?? Just a guess.

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Jeff
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#5: Post by Jeff »

It's sort of hard to beat the repeatability of one of the better quality pump-driven machines or spring levers. If you've got more variation than you expect, then I would look somewhere other than your La Spaz as the source. Unless something is flakey on it, it is about as repeatable as it gets.

The DE1 and, assuming it delivers on promises, the Meticulous can repeat a custom extraction pattern more accurately than someone using a manual valve on an E61 or similar.

I think the steel burrs for the Vario may not give you the kind of espresso you are looking for. They tend to be good for filter coffee and do a reasonable job on light-roast espresso. Those burrs aren't know for easy, chocolatey, traditional espresso shots with lots of body.

Chura (original poster)
Posts: 57
Joined: 10 years ago

#6: Post by Chura (original poster) »

Thank you both for the comments, this is actually what I was looking for. Some insights from the great community over here.
The things that I take from Dave that I need to think about are:
DaveC wrote: ultimately, if the shots are for you alone then it's great, if you have guests.
Guests use case is interesting, never taught about it.
DaveC wrote: P.P.S. I did wonder why they used a temp controlled kettle at 70C to demo it, especially as they would want much faster heating at an exhibition. You mentioned using an ordinary kettle and it's possible they didn't use one because if the water is too hot it messes with the shot producing process?? Just a guess.
too hot is also interesting, since if one tea and other coffee it might interfere the process, then again, is its "shareable" machine is single person use.

H2c4
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#7: Post by H2c4 »

The manual heating of water/group head would annoy me. But the machine looks so good.

sympa
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#8: Post by sympa »

I find it ungainly tall.

NelisB
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Joined: 15 years ago

#9: Post by NelisB »

When do you expect the Meticulous to hit the market?

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SteveRhinehart
Posts: 297
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#10: Post by SteveRhinehart »

Seems like they should ship this year. If Lunar New Year remains their biggest delay then they could be in customer hands around summer. Their most recent update says they did a big design sprint to identify and correct existing issues for manufacturing, and they feel it is plausible that their next design revision is the one that will head to pilot production.