When it works the Vario was a good grinder. But it is definitely not a lifetime investment in terms of build quality.

It appears that the Forte has tried to fix many of the Vario problems, personally I would not spend money on a Forte unless I could take it apart and see how it is built, and if it has actually fixed the Vario shortcomings. See my post Burr Alignment on Mahlkoenig Vario (Baratza/Ditting). Forte parts upgrade? Here in South Africa the Vario was sold under either the brand of Ditting or Mahlkoenig, but is not worthy of either of those brand names. The Forte is not sold here at the moment.

The Vario is great for low grind retention and in my experience gave a very good taste in the cup for the period that it was working, and it has a very small footprint. When I rebuild it with a few modifications I'm hoping I can still get some good service out of it. I now own an Anfim SC and like most grinders in that class it will last several lifetimes in home use. The Vario is really a "disposable" grinder when compared to your normal shop grinders, ie Mazzer SJ, Anfim SC, Mahlkoenig k30, etc, in that you must not expect it to have a long lifetime. I'm very curious to see if the Forte is really substantially better.

Thenitwas,

I may be the wrong one to ask abut ANY Baratza, since I had trouble with mine and it soon went back to them (IIRC, sent it to Kyle). So I'm biased due to a negative personal experience.

But I can say this with confidence:

-- If you're going to get a Baratza, get the Forte.

-- If, however, you have the $$$ for a Forte, take a hard look at the Quamar M80e, for HALF (or just over half) the Forte's price...so save some serious money (if that appeals to you) and STILL get a pretty good grinder. As GOOD as the Forte? I don't know, but still very good from what info I can find on Quamars.

-- And finally (of course), if your kitchen's upper cabinet height allows for only a shorter grinder like the Forte...well then, there you have it!

I don't know anything about Bezzera grinders, partly because (I guess) they're not as common as Mazzer and Baratza. But as mentioned earlier, if a person is happy with it, that's all that matters (and regardless of what others say). If they aren't happy with their grinder, they can always buy some other model of the same brand or, go with a different brand entirely. Personally, I use the word "better" carefully, as it's mostly subjective/opinion vs. something scientific/quantitative. In short, to each his/her own, for whatever reasons.

-- BR

P.S. I've been told the Mazzer Mini "was a great grinder in its time but now it's obsolete." Well, to me it's STILL a great grinder. Are there "better" upscale/home-use/light-commercial grinders than the Mini out now? Probably, but how LONG has the Mini been on top for home use? YEARS. So "better" grinders being out nowadays still doesn't (to me) take anything away from a Mazzer Mini -- it's still a VERY good grinder (even without Super Jolly burrs). And despite the same charge ("was a great grinder in its time but now it's obsolete") made against my Rancilio Rocky (which I got after I sent back the Baratza Virtuoso Preciso in 2012), I think the Rocky is a good grinder, too, even if not so much for espresso as the "experts" say. But now that I have the "obsolete" Mini, the Rocky is going to be my Drip or French Press grinder -- if I ever need that (probably never, as I only make espresso). For now, the Rocky is "retired" -- and it served me and my Rancilio Silvia well for the 3 years it was in use.
--

JHB.Barista wrote:When it works the Vario was a good grinder. But it is definitely not a lifetime investment in terms of build quality.

It appears that the Forte has tried to fix many of the Vario problems, personally I would not spend money on a Forte unless I could take it apart and see how it is built, and if it has actually fixed the Vario shortcomings. See my post Burr Alignment on Mahlkoenig Vario (Baratza/Ditting). Forte parts upgrade?

JHB,

Thanks for the insight! that helps strike off even the slightest idea of getting a Vario. As for the Forte, I see what you mean and I suppose I will hold out to see other user response. For now, I think I will be diving into the roaster first.

BillRedding wrote: -- If, however, you have the $$$ for a Forte, take a hard look at the Quamar M80e, for HALF (or just over half) the Forte's price...so save some serious money (if that appeals to you) and STILL get a pretty good grinder. As GOOD as the Forte? I don't know, but still very good from what info I can find on Quamars.

Seen the Quamars on the forum quite a bit and it looks good. however it would be hard to get it to where I stay (Singapore) without paying a hughe amount of shipping fees.

BillRedding wrote: P.S. I've been told the Mazzer Mini "was a great grinder in its time but now it's obsolete." Well, to me it's STILL a great grinder. Are there "better" upscale/home-use/light-commercial grinders than the Mini out now? Probably, but how LONG has the Mini been on top for home use? YEARS. So "better" grinders being out nowadays still doesn't (to me) take anything away from a Mazzer Mini -- it's still a VERY good grinder (even without Super Jolly burrs).

I would have to agree on this, which makes me lean more to the mini. then again, might go for the roaster first!

Thank you all for the awesome advice. it helps having people who are friendly and nice to bounce off ideas and opinions before making a decision!

The difference between two micro adjustements are very small, so small that i normally always go with a two steps adjustments to see a difference in the pour. So, to me, this is not a problem with the Forte to be a step grinder.

My double shots takes about 30 sec, not 14.

Séb wrote: To me, the macro setting 2 is just not usable for an espresso. If i use 2A for example, the flow rate will be way too fast for an espresso.

Weird. I'm currently on 2Q at 14g of coffee and I'm having trouble hitting 2 ounces in under 30 seconds. I'm having to adjust coarser.

SonVolt wrote:Weird. I'm currently on 2Q at 14g of coffee and I'm having trouble hitting 2 ounces in under 30 seconds. I'm having to adjust coarser.

It was on my old Silvia. Right now i let my grinder to my friend who use it on his Londinium L1 and he also use around 1M most of the time. It is just a matter of calibration, the numbers does not matter, if it works well for you at 2Q and me at 1M that is perfect to me. But if i had a problem to get a good pour at 1A then i would recalibrate the grinder and check for any problem but it has been at about the same settings since i got it and works flawlessly and most importantly the espresso taste great so i always remember when i was a technician " if it ain't broken, don't fix it"

Séb wrote:The difference between two micro adjustements are very small, so small that i normally always go with a two steps adjustments to see a difference in the pour. So, to me, this is not a problem with the Forte to be a step grinder.

Great! seem pretty good! Will probably decide between this and the Quamar m80E which has been mentioned quite bit in the forums.

Séb wrote:My double shots takes about 30 sec, not 14.

my bad, i was referring to the dose time, not the extraction!

Thenitwas wrote:my bad, i was referring to the dose time, not the extraction!

Ah ah ok My dose time on my Forte AP for a 18g dose is about 7.2sec from what i remember because my grinder is at my friend's home while he wait for his K30. I have a 18g setting around 7.2sec and a triple at about 21-22g in about 9.8sec. This is fast enough. Theses value will of course change according to your grind finesse but 7-8sec for a double on a Forte is quite standard.