Hello, All

I need your help because I'm lost in the ocean of different machines

Input data:
I do coffee at home only for me and my wife (sometimes for my guests)
I have electrical handmade coffee grinder with conic grinding burrs 68 mm from Faema MC 99


I have Rancilio Silvia upgraded with PID from Auber


I have a lot of tampers, holders etc
I drink only espresso and double espresso (for the milk drinks i have other machine)
I use only water after reverse osmosis filter
I live in Spain

I want to change my machine to new one better quality with silent rotary pump, with PID, with timer,
One or two boilers - it is not important.
However if machine has two boilers - would be better if i could turn off the second one
I found some models but absolutely can't understand if they are good or not? Will they be better or the same like my Rahcilio?

IZZO ALEX Duetto IV Plus
LELIT Bianca PL162T (as i understand only this machine does not have E61 group)
PROFITEC Pro 700
ROCKET Cronometro R Mozzafiato

Maybe can I buy something cheaper? or these models are the entry level for the "next class of the coffee machines"?
What is the difference between the models for home but highest quality than Rancilio?

Hi @hAKER in Spain! When I was considering the Duetto, among other machines, I was greatful someone recommended me to read Choosing an Espresso Machine Rationally.

I got the Izzo Alex Duetto IV+, and am very happy with it. I posted some photos, impressions, and core accessories here: Love my new Izzo Alex Duetto IV Plus (MK619p, ver.Oct2022)!

I hope you find a good source for buying a machine in Spain. And maybe if you look for used ones, then you can drive around or ride some trains to go and try them.

hAKER wrote: I drink only espresso and double espresso (for the milk drinks i have other machine)
I use only water after reverse osmosis filter

You may consider "espresso only" machines like QM Carola or ECM Puristika.

hAKER wrote:Hello, All
LELIT Bianca PL162T (as i understand only this machine does not have E61 group)

Bianca have E61 with factory installed flow control.

SkyBlip wrote:Hi @hAKER in Spain! When I was considering the Duetto, among other machines, I was greatful someone recommended me to read Choosing an Espresso Machine Rationally.

I got the Izzo Alex Duetto IV+, and am very happy with it. I posted some photos, impressions, and core accessories here: Love my new Izzo Alex Duetto IV Plus (MK619p, ver.Oct2022)!

I hope you find a good source for buying a machine in Spain. And maybe if you look for used ones, then you can drive around or ride some trains to go and try them.

thank you for your experience. It was really interesting.
Sorry for my English. It is not my native language

I spent previous week for reading, viewing tons of information (youtube, forums, private talks)
my current list is:
Izzo Alex Duetto IV+
VBM Domobar Super Elettronica
Crem One 2B R-LFPP


And also i thought about 2 machines in the upper league
Sanremo You
Rocket R NINE ONE
but i do not understand if i need them. They are incredible expensive. And "R One" - super heavy and huge size

So. I'm trying to find all "+" and "-" of each models.
Now I live in the city Gandia. Crem has the factory there. I was on it, discuss with worker. It helps but not for all questions


and i can't choose for now

hAKER wrote: I need your help because I'm lost in the ocean of different machines

Input data:
I do coffee at home only for me and my wife (sometimes for my guests)
I have electrical handmade coffee grinder with conic grinding burrs 68 mm from Faema MC 99

I have Rancilio Silvia upgraded with PID from Auber

I have a lot of tampers, holders etc
I drink only espresso and double espresso (for the milk drinks i have other machine)
I use only water after reverse osmosis filter
I live in Spain

I want to change my machine to new one better quality with silent rotary pump, with PID, with timer,
One or two boilers - it is not important.
However if machine has two boilers - would be better if i could turn off the second one
I found some models but absolutely can't understand if they are good or not? Will they be better or the same like my Rahcilio?

LELIT Bianca PL162T (as i understand only this machine does not have E61 group)

As stated above "skansen" Lelit Bianca PL162 has an e61 grouphead https://lelit.com/product/bianca-pl162t/

To help other forum members help answer your request better, would you please answer these following questions?
* What is range of number of espressos (singles and doubles) you make in day?
* What is range of number of steamed milk drinks (e.g. cappuccino, latte, coratado) that you make in a day?
* What is your current milk steamer? (you mentioned "for the milk drinks (sic) i have other machine")
* What do you not like about your existing Rancilio Silvia with PID?


In interim,
(1) I also agree with "SkyBlip" recommendation to read this prior thread Choosing an Espresso Machine Rationally and within that thread in my humble opinion these are especially key posts
Choosing an Espresso Machine Rationally
Choosing an Espresso Machine Rationally
Choosing an Espresso Machine Rationally

(2) From my experience please do not fall into "analysis paralysis." Please get the best espresso machine you can afford and one that does not get in the way of the most important aspect: making exceptional tasting espresso. On the other hands if having overkill satiates your FOMO (fear of missing out) then scratch that itch if you can responsibly afford it. One example of overkill in my opinion is having large dual boiler (e.g. >1.5 litre brew boiler and 1.5 litre steam boiler) and making 99% straight espresso (<4 per day) and <=5 steamed milk drinks per week. In this example I would just get Lelit Mara X Lelit MaraX Review or something similar.

(3) Please also realize the espresso machine is the least important variable in making exceptional espresso It's the Barista, Stupid The oft statement on home-barista.com with respect to equipment "grinder, grinder, grinder" is true in my experience.

Also look at availability and expected availability of parts. A machine may have all kinds of exciting features, but if it isn't selling broadly and well, you've got a couple problems. One is that there aren't many people to help you with its puzzling aspects and hints and tricks for its use. Another is that parts may be a problem in the future.

Going the other way, there are machines that are talked a lot about on the Internet that I wouldn't recommend and several that I'd sell immediately if given one. Some have a reputation from decades ago that made sense then, but are no longer competitive. Others are cheap for their feature set, and turn out to be have high failure rates of certain components because of the compromises made.

Another set of questions to answer is around what goes into your machine:

* What kind of coffees do you use to make espresso? Are they labeled as for espresso, or as for filter?
* Are you planning on upgrading your grinder? If so, what is your budget for that?

Thank you. I understood that Bianca has E61
i was a little bit confuse about - L58E group at first

about answers:

mdmvrockford wrote:As stated above "skansen" Lelit Bianca PL162 has an e61 grouphead https://lelit.com/product/bianca-pl162t/


To help other forum members help answer your request better, would you please answer these following questions?
* What is range of number of espressos (singles and doubles) you make in day?
* What is range of number of steamed milk drinks (e.g. cappuccino, latte, coratado) that you make in a day?
* What is your current milk steamer? (you mentioned "for the milk drinks (sic) i have other machine")
* What do you not like about your existing Rancilio Silvia with PID?

1. Regularly we drink 4 double espresso per day
If we have quests the quantity is bigger.
2+3. milk steamer now is "Miele CVA 7840". It is also a place for the water for different kinds of tea
How much milk drinks - in general one per day + in case of guests it is more
4. I bought Silvia when I lived in USA in 2016. So it is 120V (i use it with additional 12 kilo step-down transformer). And my wife do not like this "view".
And i want something new. Something better than Silvia
I always (from 2004) bought more and more highest quality coffee equipment.
And now it looks like I am too long time with Silvia. It was my dream in 2010. And i walked too long before can buy it


Also I read all article of "SkyBlip"


From my experience please do not fall into "analysis paralysis."
ha ha. Looks like now i'm in it already But i am not nervous. Step by step i will come to my dream. I will make a choice

I know about "The Four M's" and fully agree with thesises
But in my experience (coffee is my hobby like wine) I bought new grinder or coffee machine and trying to improve my skills
it is a every day process

Jeff wrote:Also look at availability and expected availability of parts. A machine may have all kinds of exciting features, but if it isn't selling broadly and well, you've got a couple problems.

I moved to Spain in October. So i do not know any about local "coffee groups", forums, etc
And I am nervous about the warranty, spare parts, but not too much.
After 2-3 years i will know much more information about my new home

About your questions:
Another set of questions to answer is around what goes into your machine:

* What kind of coffees do you use to make espresso? Are they labeled as for espresso, or as for filter?
* Are you planning on upgrading your grinder? If so, what is your budget for that?

now i'm using fresh roasted beans from Ukraine for espresso
and spend some time to find local spanish roasters. For today I found three and after change the coffee machine will try to find my favorite kind of coffee here

About upgrade grinder. I do not know yet.
As I understand my current grinder is more than enough for several years
And i haven't any idea what can i buy better
+ i have kruve shifter
they can help to separate some big and small


About:
Going the other way, there are machines that are talked a lot about on the Internet that I wouldn't recommend and several that I'd sell immediately if given one. Some have a reputation from decades ago that made sense then, but are no longer competitive.

I read some reviews about Bianca. It was perfect before 3rd version
the same situation about newest VBM Domobar
About CREM looks like they changed all first moments but they still have bad sales department

looks like all newer models are worse than oldest
but this situation are in most life aspects.
If new gadget can work 10 years - it is not good for the manufacturer

Originally I wouldn't have recommended this but some of the machines you are mentioning now are quickly approaching/possibly surpassing La Marzocco Micra territory. If you are willing to deal with an App for some of those boxes, I believe it checks all of them.

With your current grinder and, what I would assume to be "espresso roast" coffee, I don't think you'll find significant improvement over a Lelit Mara X or one of the solid dual-boiler machines, like the Bianca / Synchronika / Profitec Pro. The La Marzocco Micra is a joy to use, though more expensive. I would also consider a lever machine. I don't know what ones are available to you at an affordable price.

Assuming you built the grinder, it would seem you're quite handy. You might also consider shopping for a used machine. Most espresso machines are easily repaired and maintained.