Normal sort of story, I am upgrading from a Silvia.

But here's the twist, I'm not willing to upgrade my Ceado E7. Why, well I bought it for £40 very luckily. (Boy does it need a service and burrs though, and any parts upgrade ideas welcome)

So my main question is, how high end could I go before I suffer 'Diminishing Returns' from not having better grinder?

Would say the below machines be unwise/a slight waste of money?

- Profitec Pro 700 Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
- Vibiemme Double Domobar.
- Expobar Brewtus
- Izzo Alex Duetto


Thanks in advance, for any guidance.

All of these machines will give you better heat stability through your shots, but I'd probably scratch the Brewtus from the list.

We have an Alex Duetto III for over 5-years now. I would without reservation or hesitation replace it with an Alex Duetto IV if we were to buy another DB E61 machine.

What's your espresso / milk based drink ratio?
What kind of roast do you usually prefer?
How many shots do you pull in a day?
Have you considered a commercial lever? (Sorry, had to find a way to plug this one )

Your E7 is a very capable grinder. Retention is probably a bit high but it's often the case with most commercial grinder in a home environment. I would look into high quality burrs and check alignment in order to get the most out of it. If it's the doser model, you may want to convert it to doserless.

Forget servicing. Order new burrs. Clean the the grind chamber and chute. Install and align the new burrs and you're good to go.

To echo what another said, I would not go with the Expobar either. They may be built OK, they look very utilitarian to me. If you are willing to consider a an HX unit, the Nuova Simonelli Oscar 2 is a great value. Personally I enjoy the convenience of volumetric or timed dosing in the morning. If you have to have an e61 and have large bank account, I would shoot for the Rocket R58. Stunning good looks, solid performance and value retention. Bezzera also has some interesting options with their electrically headed brew group.

Thank you Lobin.

Thank you, I didn't know about the those e7 mods, I hate the doser, so now really interested in converting. Do you know any expert threads on this?

In answer to your question, I have considered a lever machine, the Profitec 800. Is all the pre-infusion stuff worth it?

Per day
2 Caps
3 espressos

Roast ranges hugely, not mad on high citrus flavours

And what is the the down side of plumbing in a commercial machine like an old Linea? Boiler too big ?

Glad the E7 will cut it - good to hear.

Thanks again,
Joe

Thank you Balliston - didn't know about electric GH's

JoePatUK wrote:Thank you Lobin.

Thank you, I didn't know about the those e7 mods, I hate the doser, so now really interested in converting. Do you know any expert threads on this?

In answer to your question, I have considered a lever machine, the Profitec 800. Is all the pre-infusion stuff worth it?

And what's is the the down side of plumbing in a commercial machine like an old Linea? Boiler too big ?

Glad the E7 will cut it - good to hear.

Thanks again,
Joe

Look for mazzer doserless mods. Lots of info out there. Don't know specifically about the E7. It's not as common as a super Joly so it'll require a bit of tinkering and some DIY. Might be 3D printed schema available.

Preinfusion is key when looking at getting the best out of light bright/acidic roasts. Not as important when pulling medium and dark roasts. Preinfusion on most lever machines is at boiler pressure (+/- 1 bar) vs pressure profiling machines that can preinfuse at any desired pressure. Commercial levers have a different pressure and temp profile compared to pump machines.

This topic is a good resume:
Reasons we use a Lever machine beyond superb shots

I was asking because you have access to various options on your side of the pond. Londinium's are built in UK and it might be worth comparing the price with a pro 700 let's say.

Commercial machines with 5L and + boilers are more energy consuming and require longer warmup time. You can plumb in most prosumer machines though. Boiler sizes (1.5 to 3L) are usually a bit small for most cafe but plenty for home usage. Direct plumbing is a good feature if you don't want to worry about refilling the water tank every day or so but it's not a necessity for most machines.

I know Dave Corby did a guide on modding the E92, but am not sure if he also did one for the E7, or if it's all that different. You could look on Bella barista UK, or do a search for it in google using keywords DavecUK and Ceado and E7.

From the list you have outlined I would say the 700 is your best bet. They will make great coffee but the 700 is the easiest to fix.