The holy grail of grinders

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
Blackd0g
Posts: 2
Joined: 5 years ago

#1: Post by Blackd0g »

hi there

im new here so go easy on me. :D i have an La pavoni Europiccola en route to me and i wanted a grinder to go with it. Now heres the crux, i obviously want the best grinder for the lowest price. does anyone have any recommendations or any top tips for choosing the right grinder.

If this topic has been covered (as im sure it has) could someone please point me in the right direction

Thanks in advance and i hoe you have all had a lovely easter

mivanitsky
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Joined: 15 years ago

#2: Post by mivanitsky »

Best grinder for lowest price:

Manual: Kinu M47. For espresso, indistinguishable from Kafatek MC3. I use neither of these for nonespresso applications, so I have no opinion re: use for that purpose.

Helor Flux and LWW HG1 are as good, when well aligned, but more expensive.

Electric: Sette (pick either of the two more expensive ones), or Niche Zero, which I would recommend, but it depends on your budget. Niche Zero tastes very like Kafatek MC3, but with somewhat (not objectionably) less clarity. If my tastes skewed to med-dark or dark roasts, I'd buy the Niche and never look back. Niche does well even for superlight roasts, but a well aligned flat with SSP burrs or a better aligned conical will serve better.

mdmvrockford
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Joined: 14 years ago

#3: Post by mdmvrockford »

Blackd0g wrote:hi there

im new here so go easy on me. :D i have an La pavoni Europiccola en route to me and i wanted a grinder to go with it. Now heres the crux, i obviously want the best grinder for the lowest price. does anyone have any recommendations or any top tips for choosing the right grinder.

If this topic has been covered (as im sure it has) could someone please point me in the right direction

Thanks in advance and i hoe you have all had a lovely easter
I'll go easy on your not because Easter Sunday was yesterday but because I am a nice guy, in general:)

Your title seeks "the Holy Grail" of grinders. Please substitute "grinder" with ________ where _______ is any fine consumer item (e.g. automatic wrist watch, sports saloon, audio player, computer). In general (a) the "Holy Grail" (by this I suspect you mean the best output) will cost more and (b) you get what you pay for; BUT b.c. you pay alot does not guarantee excellence.

My suggestion given your La Pavoni Europiccola machine (I am assuming you do not make multiple drinks in a row like I do which is not its (LPE) design:
(a) hand grinder:
* Helor Flux (formerly known as Helor 106): It has Mazzer 71mm conical burr (single phase). Similar electric grinders with same burrset all start >$2500 US dollars.
* HG-1

(b) electric grinder:
* Niche Zero. But it is not built to last generations like other electric grinders. Again, you usually get what you pay for.

List of grinders for sale with Mazzer 71mm & 83mm conical burrs Mazzer burrs, in general, are regarded as among the best burrset. Thus grinders with them are usually very good. There are PLENTY of equally great grinders with NON-Mazzer burrs.

Welcome to home-barista.com!
LMWDP #568

Blackd0g (original poster)
Posts: 2
Joined: 5 years ago

#4: Post by Blackd0g (original poster) »

thanks so much. With regard to grinders im going in blind so just a point in the right direction is much appreciated

false1001
Posts: 279
Joined: 6 years ago

#5: Post by false1001 »

Be honest with yourself and decide on a hard and fast budget. Don't let the setups on this forum make you feel inadequate... your barista skills will be the largest factor in the quality of your espresso and upgrading to the latest and greatest is a matter of percentage points at best. After you've decided on a budget stick to it, and buy the best grinder within that range you can.

Most espresso grinders between $500-$1k will give you similar performance, the differences will largely be in workflow/size/noise/bells and whistles. Do you foresee yourself changing beans often? Or do you usually buy the same beans from the same roaster? This is probably the first question you need to answer. Second, consider if you're okay with a hand grinder. Hand grinders punch way above their dollar weight but can give you Titan quality grind for cheap. But if you're not 100% sure you're okay spending a minute or so on every shot hand grinding your beans, i'd stick with a motorized grinder first.

max
Posts: 376
Joined: 9 years ago

#6: Post by max »

It all depends on what qualities you are willing to pay for. These range from workflow, design, and longevity/serviceability, to the cup qualities of the resulting brew.

In my opinion, the safe bet is a high end hand grinder, provided you are willing to hand grind. If I were start my equipment collection from scratch, I would begin with either a Kinu M47 or a Helor 101 (or 108). At your location, perhaps the Knock grinders are easier to source. I have not seen the new version of the feldgrind (but a friend just received his, so maybe soon), but as I recall it, the first version is not on par with my Helors. The Aergrind is a (comparatively) very affordable grinder that would probably be a great entry point. It is likely on par with the first feldgrind.

One thing that you have to know when picking your equipment is that it will not magically make great coffee for you. If you are not selecting the "right" beans, use the right water, learn to dial in correctly, etc, then maybe the value added from getting fancier equipment is not worth the money.

Also worthwhile to keep in mind is that a lot of the regulars on this forum (including me) are very very picky by most people's standards. I have several friends who bought equipment to make great coffee at home, but what they are aiming for is not the same as many HB users. These friends are happy like that and would likely not gain much, if anything, from upgrading to the most expensive grinder money can buy.

TheGriz
Posts: 35
Joined: 6 years ago

#7: Post by TheGriz »

It really depends of the type of coffee you drink. If you like the absolute best straight shots and are into lighter roasts then you want a very good, well aligned, flat burr grinder. The flat burrs are going to bring out far more complexity in the cup. There are plenty of these grinders on the market, but they are more expensive (around the $2,000 USD mark).

If you like darker roasts, milk drinks, or are okay with good enough then most smaller conical grinders will get you there: Kinu M47, Helor 101, Comandante, Lido ET, etc.

Larger conicals are going to be better than the smaller burrs above, but they wont get to the flavor separation of a flat burr grinder imo. If you want an upgrade to those manual grinders above: Helor 106 (Flux), Kinu M68, HG-1, or Helor Stance. Not really sure how much better we are talking about though since it is a bit subjective.

I usually say go the manual route if you are trying to save money as they will easy perform at the level of electric grinders 3-4 times in cost. I would start with a smaller hand grinder. This will easily be better than 95% of the coffee shops around if you work on your barista skills.

forbeskm
Posts: 1021
Joined: 11 years ago

#8: Post by forbeskm »

Quite happy with my lido 2 for espresso or my pharos. Cost wise fits nicely with a Pavoni,

But, grinders are kind of a religion :).

MonLon
Posts: 31
Joined: 5 years ago

#9: Post by MonLon »

mivanitsky wrote:Best grinder for lowest price:

Manual: Kinu M47. For espresso, indistinguishable from Kafatek MC3. I use neither of these for nonespresso applications, so I have no opinion re: use for that purpose.

Helor Flux and LWW HG1 are as good, when well aligned, but more expensive.

Electric: Sette (pick either of the two more expensive ones), or Niche Zero, which I would recommend, but it depends on your budget. Niche Zero tastes very like Kafatek MC3, but with somewhat (not objectionably) less clarity. If my tastes skewed to med-dark or dark roasts, I'd buy the Niche and never look back. Niche does well even for superlight roasts, but a well aligned flat with SSP burrs or a better aligned conical will serve better.
Mike,
I hope this is not too off-topic, but from what you're saying about the M47, MC3 and Niche, I get it that the M47 does better than Niche (in clarity and especially light roasts) and just as well as MC3, even though it has (much) smaller burrs than both.
I assume this is because it's both well-aligned and manual.
If the M47 is indistinguishable from the MC3, then does it mean that the Kinu M68, that is supposed to be an upgrade from the M47, would be even better than MC3? Or are the differences so small that most of the upgrade with the M68 is the improved workflow?

mivanitsky
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#10: Post by mivanitsky »

No, it would be expected to be equal, and I agree with the reasons you specified above. Any of the very well aligned large conical hand grinders will be approximately equivalent, and probably indistinguishable in blind tasting. My tests convince me that size matters way less than alignment, assuming a well made conical burr set. Even Helor 101 is very close, if you align it "perfectly."
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