Help me decide: Quick Mill QM67 or Rancilio Silvia Pro X?

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
dliebs
Posts: 16
Joined: 2 years ago

#1: Post by dliebs »

I want a dual boiler machine with pre-infusion and excellent steam power. I make mostly milk drinks. I have a Eureka Specialita grinder. I want to make the right choice so I don't have to pay return shipping--there are no espresso machine sales places near me.

I looked at the mini Vivaldi/Lucca a53, but I don't love the non-standard portafilter or its overall appearance or how huge it is. Considered Lelit Bianca but it's really a bit too much $. I prefer the look of an E61 (love the chrome), but not sure if it's worth that much extra money to go with the Quick Mill QM67 Evo over the Silvia Pro X. I spoke to a salesperson at Chris' Coffee today and he said the steam is great on the Silvia. (He also said he actually liked the pink version and it sold out quickly--I had to ask.)

Thanks, y'all!

gobucks
Posts: 239
Joined: 2 years ago

#2: Post by gobucks »

One other option you might consider is the Lelit Elizabeth - it's actually cheaper ($1699) than even the Silvia Pro X, and has a better preinfusion implementation. The QM67 and Silvia Pro X both use "passive" or "soft" preinfusion, wherein the pump runs for a few seconds to introduce water into the puck, followed by a "bloom" phase wherein the water can seep into the puck. In the QM67, the e61 group head has a long ramp up in pressure during which the puck can bloom, whereas in the Silvia the pump is merely disabled during the bloom period, adding no additional pressure.

By contrast, the Elizabeth (which I own) has a valve to add steam from the steam boiler to increase pressure on the puck during the preinfusion period, which helps push the water through the puck quicker and more evenly. The boiler also goes up to 145C (although I experienced some issues with boiler temp stability at this steam temp), yielding over 3 bars of pressure, so this can really help a lot. A seller I spoke with said this helps to mimic the backpressure supplied by a higher end plumbed in rotary machine. With the steam disabled, the preinfusion functions the same as the Silvia Pro X. It also has other benefits, such as faster startup/more stable temp/less accidental burn risk compared to an e61 like the QM67, improved hot water performance (it uses a mix of boiler and steam water to provide a steady flow of water at a reasonable temperature), and a much better drip tray implementation than the Silvia. Finally, I really like the button implementation on the Elizabeth (as opposed to the switch on the Silvia and lever on the QM67), as you can program an auto shutoff time, so once you've dialed in your grind, you can get a perfect shot with one button push, which is great for when casual users want to use the machine, and also frees you up to start steaming milk while the shot is pulling.

It isn't all roses though. The boilers are quite small - brew boiler is .3L, same as Silvia but much smaller than QM67, and steam boiler is .6L, only 60% the size of the other two machines. They do bounce back quite fast though, as the heating elements are quite powerful. I've never personally run into any limitations even when making multiple drinks for a few friends or family, but I'm also not super fast at making drinks. Build quality is also good, but not great. It weighs just over half what the other machines weigh, which is good for moving around but it isn't built like a tank as the other two are, and the edges are not as nice and precise as, say, an ECM machine. It looks extremely similar to the Silvia Pro X, I personally prefer the buttons on the Elizabeth over the switches on the Silvia, and think the drip tray looks nicer, but this is subjective. The rubber feet also suck, still looking into whether aftermarket options would fit, but I found that adding adhesive felt pads to the feet make the machine slide out from under a cabinet very easily. I did also encounter a weird issue when pushing the steam boiler too hard (140-145C), where every so often the temp of the brew boiler would crash from 93C (the setting) down to 83C before firing the boiler back up and recovering. Dropping the steam boiler to 135C or lower resolved the issue (still a ton of steam, over 2 bars). I never did conclusively figure out what the problem is, but I suspect the power demands at these temps were causing the steam boiler to monopolize the 110V power supply at the expense of brew boiler stability. Also, unlike the QM67, and like the Silvia, it has no option for flow control (which may or may not be a gimmick on an e61, but I still wish it had the option). Finally, the included accessories are not great - the tamper and measuring spoon are cheapo plastic, and the portafilter is fine but has a weird curved double spout design which is really hard to clean. I bought a bottomless one and use the included one to permanently hold the backflush disk.

Between the QM67 and Silvia, I think both are great and are machines I also considered, I'd probably go Silvia since $500-600 would probably be better spent on a better grinder or just pocketed, and I prefer the temp stability, startup time, and reduced burn risk (especially important if you have kids) of a saturated group head. If you can comfortably afford the QM67 and want to try flow control, then that would also be a great choice.

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dliebs (original poster)
Posts: 16
Joined: 2 years ago

#3: Post by dliebs (original poster) »

Hmmm. No kids yet but working on it (it's taking a lot more money and science and time than we thought it would).

I'm getting a number of people in other forums pushing the Bianca. I'm just trying to figure out whether there's much difference between a $1500, $2000, $2500 machine... I don't think my husband will go for a $3K machine--he's horrified by the $2K ones I'm looking at. Trying to find open box deals, but a lot of them are HX which I just don't think I want.

I was looking at the Elizabeth and also the mini Vivaldi. And I still don't really understand the advantages/disadvantages of E61 vs saturated group head (other than your point about burning yourself on an E61).

Thanks for the very detailed response! I appreciate it. I just really want to make the right choice and not have to ship anything back to Portland, or upstate NY. And I want to last longer than my Crossland (steam wand's been weird for about a year already and I don't think I've owned the machine for even 5 years). Maybe I need to watch some more youtube videos. :-\

gobucks
Posts: 239
Joined: 2 years ago

#4: Post by gobucks »

If you don't mind the drive from NoVa to New Jersey, 1st Line Equipment has a refurbished Bianca for a great price: https://www.1st-line.com/buy/rrpl162tv2/ seems like a great machine. This went on sale after I bought the Elizabeth, the decision would have been harder if I'd seen it earlier. The Bianca seems like a great machine, and has a ton of features for the money; Lelit's claim to fame (at least wrt their VIP 58mm line) is to pack more features into their machines than anybody else at their respective price points, albeit they do sacrifice a bit of build quality to hit their price points - don't get me wrong, my Elizabeth feels solid and looks nice, but up close you can definitely tell the difference between that and, say, a Profitec Pro 300. Ditto the Bianca compared to an ECM Synchronika or Profitec Pro 700. It's a tradeoff I am fine with, just something to be aware of. Also I generally agree with the assessment that HX machines aren't the way to go, although Lelit does have a really interesting one in the Mara X, it uses a PID controller and 3 way switch to keep the temps within 2C ranges (low/med/high) without the need to do cooling flushes. Seems like a great value at 1550, and I think it even includes a flow control knob via some sellers right now.

As for the difference between e61 and saturated, I believe the difference is that the e61 works like a radiator, and is indirectly connected to the brew boiler. Heat is conducted to the e61 head, and the head achieves stability by virtue of being a giant hunk of metal that can absorb a ton of heat. It seems to take longer to heat up, and there is a little more unpredictability about thermal stability. But it's a very tried and true design, and looks great. I think saturated is more "modern", and the head is mounted directly to the brew boiler, so there is less heat loss along the way. They heat up faster and have great temp stability, but look kinda blocky and boring, and for whatever reason don't seem to get much love in the "high end prosumer" $3000 range - they mostly seem to be either sub-$2000 prosumer machines, or $5000+ semi-commercial machines like La Marzocco.

And good luck, I hope the science pays off for you!