Help me decide on a new espresso machine - Leit Bianca or... ? - Page 2

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
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#11: Post by sweaner »

I love my Bianca, but have you thought about saving a ton and going with the Breville/Sage Dual Boiler? You could fit that and a good grinder into 1/2 of your budget.
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#12: Post by CoffeeCake »

if you are set on an E61 then I would go with the Bianca or Duo MN, they both offer more precise temperature adjustments and better pre infusion options than the Rocket.

The Duo will require the purchase and then installation of the flow control device unless the vendor installs them in house. Also, something to note is that the Bianca is specifically designed around the concept of flow control.

You can still operate both machines like a regular E61 by setting the paddle to a desired flow rate pre brew. You can also program pre infusion etc. *(if plumbed in on the Rocket and Bezzera) then just start and stop the extraction with the lever as you would any E61.

With flow control you can make up for a less than perfect puck prep, less than perfect grind or even less than fresh beans.

However the concept of flow control for the most part to my understanding, is to manipulate and explore the parameters of lighter roasts to be able to extract the best out of the beans.

You don't really need flow control if your mostly into dark roasts and a lot can be said as to the importance for a good grind, good puck prep and fresh (but not too fresh) beans. Pre infusion can also give you a lot of flexibility if you learn how to use it correctly.

If flow control is something you think you are into, or will possibly be into further down the rabbit hole, then I would go with the Bianca.

If flow control is unimportant then go with the Bezzera Duo MN.

If you like the concept of a clean, classic E61 look then go with the Rocket. The Rocket is still a great machine and the touchscreen detaches to keep the classic Italian look. *Be advised though that with the Rocket and Bezzera (without flow control) you might only be able to achieve pre infusion if you have the machine plumbed in to a water line that is under pressure.

You can always add a flow control device to both the Bezzera and the Rocket later on if you would like to.

Anyway, I hope this helps somehow. Lol. Good luck on your journey.
Bring extra Carrots, that hole looks deep!

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#13: Post by Jeff »

If it fits your psyche and budget, there are many active Decent Espresso DE1 owners in Australia.


#14: Post by Mountain »

spout wrote:I'm constantly reading pros and cons of each machine and can't come to a decision. I want to be drinking espresso sooner than later so I'm reaching out to the brains trust on which machine I should be getting. I've narrowed it down to three. Perhaps there should be another one I should look at? I'm looking at spending under $4k USD.

The Leit Bianca v2 is at the top of my list at the moment due to its features. What should I be considering or put to the top of my list?
  • Lelit Bianca V2
  • Bezzera Duo
  • Rocket R Cinquantotto (R58)
I went through a similar decision a year ago or so. There were some good discussion points in this thread >>> Upgrade to Lelit Bianca or Decent Espresso
★ Helpful


#15: Post by crazyascarl »

I'm right there with you--The Bianca has been my leading candidate for a month or so (sub 3k US dollars, rotary pump with a "smaller" footprint and liked the added bonus of pressure profiling) until I discovered the Crem One 2B R-LFPP, which I'm trying to gather more information about.

Reads very similar to the Bianca (rotary pump, pressure profile...) with a bit more of an updated look. I can't seem to find much about the Crem line short of them being part of a merger of Expobar, which has a history of making solid machines.

They also have a similar model without the pressure profiling.

Either way, if you're like me, it might be worth looking into.

spout (original poster)

#16: Post by spout (original poster) »

Thanks everyone for your feedback. Guess what! I still haven't decided.

I have knocked off a few espresso machines from my list. I can't believe I didn't realize this earlier. A pressure profiling machine is useless unless you can make it repeatable. Well for me anyway. I can't do this with the Leit Bianca with accuracy. There is no way to save a profile so what is the point? Well that is how I feel now anyway. I'm pretty set on a pressure profile machine and want to twinker so here is the new list.

Crem One 2B R-LFPP
$4,620 AUD @ ... -LFPP-Dual
- Has saved presents that you upload/download via USB.
- Crem has provided a number of firmware updates to improve the machine
- Apparently they may release software to easily edit the recipes (their language)
- I can only find positive comments on this machine.
- A good review here - https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpres ... em-one-2b/

Descent Espresso
$6,641 AUD @
- To me this is what you want to geek it out and twinker with accuracy. Having visibility of all the variables is amazing.
- Firmware updates
- Apparently the quality of parts is good along with the design. People are worried about the future of the company and parts availability.
- I'm not a fan of its looks. It's probably whats having me back off at the moment.

Rocket R9 One
$7,500 AUD if I have calculated that correctly
- This was my favorite on the list until I found the Crem One. I then watched a YouTube video by Seattle Coffee and the lady couldn't had to push a button on the touch screen 3 times for it to accept the touch input. People complained that the machine had good parts but the design was complex leading to maintenance being difficult.

The Crem One is leading the way for me now. I'm still researching to see what I come up with.

spout (original poster)

#17: Post by spout (original poster) »

@crazyascarl Crem One seems very positive so far. Any comments on the pros/cons you have found with that or other machines you are considering?

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#18: Post by crazyascarl » replying to spout »

The main con that I've found is here just isn't much information about it out there. I found that large review you posted as well, which makes it sound like a really well thought out machine (no surprise given the Expobar history). What he calls adaptive pressure profiling seems unique, but also logical and really cool (I'm a math teacher and that video of basically bar graphs made a lot of sense to me).

The pressure profiling version isn't officially for sale in the US (Whole Latte Love should be posting it, along with their summary video in the coming weeks) so I'm not sure what the price point will be... but given the GSP one (rotary pump, no pressure profiling) is like a couple hundred less than the Bianca, I'm guessing the LFPP will be a pricier machine. Scratch that-- they just listed it today. Basically the same price as the Bianca... no video yet.

Space is somewhat of a consideration for me and I Iike the removable, external, reservoir on the Bianca which makes it a smaller profile machine. I somewhat like the idea of the flow handle up top, makes changes feel more tactile and meaningful. But I also like the option to program a unique shot and get repetition. I think the bianca is a prettier machine... but the Crem can add wood accents as well ($$)

I'm not interested in the Decent, just don't do it for me. I didn't entertain Rocket, not sure why.

Their footprints are too big for my liking, but other than that I'd entertain the Profitec 700 or ECM Sync (both with flow control).

I ruled them out but the other options I was considering were the Bezzera DUO MN, Lucca M58 V2 or Izzo Alex Duetto IV (none comes with flow control).

It's tough.

spout (original poster)

#19: Post by spout (original poster) »

crazyascarl wrote: I'm not interested in the Decent, just don't do it for me.
I'm the same with you on this. My brain says to buy it but my heart says not to.
crazyascarl wrote: I ruled them out but the other options I was considering were the Bezzera DUO MN, Lucca M58 V2 or Izzo Alex Duetto IV (none comes with flow control).
Do those machines save profiles? Is that impacting your choice at all?

I'll stay tuned for the Whole Latte Love review but I'm not seeing any negatives apart from the way you upload/download profiles and if the way you edit them in a text editor. This seems like my preferred way to do it. I can sit down and program it the way I want without the worry about connecting an app to the machine.

From writing this up again I have almost sold myself on it.

Team HB

#20: Post by Jeff »

I can't say that the Crem edit the table of volume vs pressure programming impresses me either technically or with ease of use. Makes BASIC seem like a sophisticated tool. It would seem that you'd need an Excel spreadsheet to do something simple like a linear, declining profile every time you wanted to change a parameter.

Reading https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpres ... em-one-2b/ from a year ago December provided some insight into its operation.

Rereading it reinforced that its programmability is extremely limited compared to the DE1. Some of those limitations are covered in the review (very difficult to do a "no-flow", low-pressure hold, becoming a mainstay of light-roast extraction with pressure-profiling machines), some of which aren't even close to the features of the DE1, which can, just as one example, move to the next step based on the pressure rise in the basket once the puck has been saturated.