Help me decide on new espresso machine, budget around $1500

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
NickR
Posts: 44
Joined: 3 years ago

#1: Post by NickR »

Hi!

I am looking to get a new espresso machine and am leaning toward the ECM Classika w/PID and flow control from WLL.

Budget is around/below $1,500. I usually drink light roast, though I flirt with medium sometimes, and I always drink it straight (no milk drinks for me). I have a Breville Bambino and she's good but I've had difficulties with light-roasts, which, after consulting various local coffee shop baristas, is not due to my grinder (Sette 270), WTD, distribution, tamping, dose, etc., but rather is due to the machine's shortcomings. My research shows that (1) flow control and (2) PID can help with this for varied reasons. Thus, I landed at an ECM Classika with PID and FC.

That said, picking a vendor is tough. Whole Latte Love is the exclusive seller in the US, as far as my research shows. My dealings with Whole Latte Love have been underwhelming, to say the least, and from asking around I get the sense that customer service is their weak spot. For someone like me that values post-purchase protection and communication, this is a killer. So, for the forum, I have these questions:

(1) Did I pick the right machine - ECM Classika with PID and FC?
(2) If so, is WLL truly the only seller within the US?
(3) If so, is buying the machine worth it, given their subpar customer service?
(4) If not, any advice for what I can get from other wholesellers?

Thank you very much for taking the time to read and help!

chipman
Posts: 1169
Joined: 16 years ago

#2: Post by chipman »

Excusing the issue of you borderline breaking Forum rules, i have always found WLL to be excellent in their customer service.

NickR (original poster)
Posts: 44
Joined: 3 years ago

#3: Post by NickR (original poster) »

Apologies for my boderline infraction. Could you elaborate?

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Jeff
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#4: Post by Jeff »

At $1,450 for an ECM Classica, plus $200 the flow-modulation kit, unless you're set on an E61 group for appearances (thermally, in a DB setting, they're far from optimal*), you might be better served by a BDB and the flow-modulation mods for $150 less, even less expensive if you can find a BDB at $1,200 or with a coupon.

* The E61 thermal system was designed for use with an HX themosiphon. Its brew temperature is not the boiler temperature and the offset can vary with, among other things, room temperature and drafts, how long it has been since the last shot, and if it has reached thermal equilibruim (40 minutes or more). One reference for this from a very reputable individual (at least in my opinion) goes back to 2005 with
gscace wrote:Do a Google groups search for "thermosyphon behavior" or something similar to find these. It's a pretty interesting topic. Dive into it a bit, and you'll realize that while the e-61 group has a pretty revered status, it's the wrong group to use in situations where you have the group temp and boiler temp close together, such as in the Brewtus or Chris's Coffee's new double boiler machine. But it sells machines.
Source: E61 Thermal Analysis Questions

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HB
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#5: Post by HB »

NickR wrote:Apologies for my boderline infraction. Could you elaborate?
You're fine.

Some sites have "probationary periods" where a new member with no post history cannot "post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service". This site has Public complaints about customer service in the Guidelines for productive online discussion, but that doesn't apply to your comments. That said, members do look at effusive praise or harsh criticism of vendors/products from members with no post history with some skepticism. Moderators reserve the right to lock or delete threads that don't pass the sniff test.

Why? In the past, there were unfortunate cases where a day-1 member joined to criticize "EspressoBIz" and we later learned this member worked for a competitor. There were other cases where a member joined to slag a vendor they hoped to pressure into changing their policy (e.g., accept a buyer's remorse purchase beyond 30 days).
Dan Kehn

mycatsnameisbernie
Posts: 261
Joined: 4 years ago

#6: Post by mycatsnameisbernie »

You can purchase the ECM Classica PID from Clive Coffee and purchase an E61 flow control device separately from Chris Coffee, 1st-line, Coffee Sensor and others.

jgood
Posts: 891
Joined: 6 years ago

#7: Post by jgood »

If you have are only interested in espresso the QM Carola is an excellent SB/no steaming E61 Machine that you might consider. In terms of the flow control, my advice would be to start without it, and then add it if you need/want it. I think it adds complication to adjusting and dialing in a new machine. It's very little effort to install, should you so desire. I tried the QM version and ended up removing it -- no experience with the Lelit or ECM versions. You can add any of the various "flow controls" on pretty much any standard E61. If you do elect to get the machine with the flow control installed I would see if the vendor would include the "take off" parts in case you want to try the machine without it.

daveR1
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#8: Post by daveR1 »

I had an ECM Classika PID no fc for a while. I really liked it. I felt it was well designed & a high quality build throughout. I drink mostly straight shots and the occasional macchiatto, so a single boiler worked pretty well for me.

grufromtheloo
Posts: 129
Joined: 6 years ago

#9: Post by grufromtheloo »

I was looking at the ECM Classika as well. It's a beautiful machine. That said, the industry had sold me on the notion that e61 was "a proper machine" and superior for home use. The kind folks here turned me on to the BDB. After a bunch of research I dropped the Classika desire and bought a BDB. If you are handy, I would highly recommend the BDB. If you are not handy and want a machine that you can keep alive for many many years at the cost of giving up thermal agility and fine variable control get the Classika. If you are dead set of having a beautiful shiny e61 on your counter, get the Classika. Aesthetics are priority for some folks, which is fine. If you want that fine variable control and really want to dial each each parameter get the BDB.

The price difference for me was 1399 CAD vs 2349 CAD for the BDB vs Classika with FC respectively. I also knew I would get upgraditis in the next 6-7 years so that's all the machine needs to last. Sure, I could sell the Classika for 800-900CAD in that time but it's still less than the price difference upfront.

NickR (original poster)
Posts: 44
Joined: 3 years ago

#10: Post by NickR (original poster) »

Hi all!

I posted on here recently about an ECM Classika but have pivoted my direction, so I am re-asking for advice.

Background: I am relatively new to espresso but very familiar with coffee. I purchased a Breville Bambino in June and, due to quarantine, spent many, many hours with the machine. I believe I have outgrown for the fact that I realized that I am a big fan of light-roasted coffee (and some medium roast). My issue with the Bambino is its inconsistency with these shots. Over the last two months I have done everything possible to keep my WDT, distribution, tamping, dose (scaled) and grind size (use Sette 270) consistent. However, with no changes on my end, my shots vary with significance. I have tinkered with the Breville's pre-infusion function but it is not very intuitive to me and has been increasingly frustrating. I have a sure buyer for the machine and thus am in the market for a new one.

As such, I am seeking a machine with PID and some some of pre-infusion/flow-control that will help me pull these light-roasted shots. I have found some machines and welcome any and all input on which is best for my purposes:

(1) ECM Classika with PID (nice offer from Clive with accessories)
(2) ECM Classika with PID and flow control (sold by WLL)
(3) Lelit Victora (PID + pre-infusion from Clive)
(4) Rancilio Silvia (Seattle Coffee Gear has one with PID and FC pre-installed)

I should also note that I am not interested in mod'ing a machine because I do not have any technical or engineering background and, frankly, don't have the time to learn. Also, my budget cannot go above $1,600.

Thank you very much!

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