shadowfax wrote:This past weekend I visited a friend in Houston who has a Macap M4. After getting to play around with it for awhile, I have to admit I wasn't as impressed as I'd hoped to be. The cord placement is a lot nicer (as you say), and his chrome grinder is much prettier all around. However, I still felt that even though the doser sweeps cleaner, you still have to sweep it out a bit to make it clean. I was unimpressed by all that plastic in the doser

The doserless MC4 avoids these nits. It's not perfect either because the schoz holds a fair bit of coffee, but that's easily and silently cleared with a chopstick or BBQ skewer.
Falsely 'maligned' as 'clumpy', it's less clumpy than Max Hybrid, at least with lighter roast coffees preferred here. The Max Hybrid doser, also made of plastic, is a major disappointment in terms of a doser supposedly offering better distribution. The noise of thwack-thwack-thwack is a major PITA.

Cheap machines ... I would distinguish between (1) the ones that are really cheap and (2) the ones that try to mimic a more serious machine yet for much less money.
My personal experience with the former is they can really do a very good espresso, but you have to be patient. Intra-shot stability is not so good, although repeatable. A small boiler with little heat inertia (do you know a better term?) means temperature drops within the shot. Also, a simple thermostat means a rather crude temperature regulation with a pretty wide deadband. If you really get to grips with these machines, you can get one excellent espresso or lungo and the second one after that already is impacted. My experience with these is reliability is really OK.
As was said by others above, the cheap machines are finicky re. the learning process. A similar thing applies to some of the lever machines which are better, but much more expensive - if I went lever, personally I would always opt for a spring loaded, gravity based machine: way more expensive than the very cheap ones.
The second (2) type I have no experience with, however would avoid for reliability issues. In my country an internet buyer is pretty much alone and prosumer machines with commercial parts inside can actually be repaired by any repairman that does commercial espresso machine maintenance for a living.

Regards
Peter

CafSuperCharged wrote:Are you sure that this is a "real" E/61 group? When I look at the Elektra A3, I can see its group is not E/61, there are others that share some of the E/61 looks.

Yes, the Expobar has a genuine E61 grouphead (or more accurately, a Spanish-made copy). The Elektra group is a propriety design that has little in common with the E61 except the round shape of the grouphead (e.g., no preinfusion and different diffusion block and screen).

shadowfax wrote:. . . However, I still felt that even though the doser sweeps cleaner, you still have to sweep it out a bit to make it clean. I was unimpressed by all that plastic in the doser.

That's just my own take. I think Mazzer still rules the roost, but it's unfortunate that both grinders have such silly little nits. Ultimately, it's most likely that either grinder is great in the long run. None of the differences between the two allow me to make a decisive recommendation.

I have never owned a Macap 4. I did, however, have a Mazzer Mini for about two years before upgrading to the Cimbali MaxHybrid -- a decision I've not regretted for a single moment. My suggestion re: the Macap was solely based upon a) the cord, and b) my wishing that the Mazzer was neater than it in reality was. But no doubt either is a "keeper" . . . until "upgrade-itis" strikes!

CafSuperCharged wrote:Make sure you get the thermometer that you can permanently insert into the group's front.

Will I be able to survive without Eric's thermometer for a while? I probably won't be able to purchase it right away, but it'll definitely be on my 'purchase' list. Right now for accessories to buy I have: frothing pitcher, frothing thermometer, Bumper tamper, knockbox...

I've also been reading up on how to do a cooling flush today; it doesn't seem too hard.

I've been waiting for Chris to email me back today on whether he had any refurbed Anitas left, but he hasn't, so it looks like tomorrow I'll give them a call and ask some final questions before ordering.

Thanks for all the help, everyone!

Good choice! Anita is a beauty, and you won't pine for upgrades soon.

There's some Expobar misinformation going on here. HB is right: build quality is on the $800 level, not the $1200 level. I'd hesitate to call it flimsy or crappy. When I first handled mine after selling my Silvia (may she rot in hell), I was ecstatic: it's solid, with thick stainless steel, the wands rotate with buttery smoothness, the knobs are pretty nice, and espresso was far better. Oh, I paid $650. For that, Anita can sit in the corner.

My pressurestat did fail, after what, 3 years? I had a commercial one put in. I doubt it will fail any time soon. Oh, my drip tray cracked. I ordered one from WLL 2 months ago. Expobar employees are on extended siesta, and they don't know when the drip-tray guy will be back. Boo-hoo.

It was an awesome purchase. I just need a dual boiler now, due to roasting requirements.

I AM NOT TRYING TO SPOIL ANY FUN YOU WILL HAVE, BUT ...
it all depends on your level of ambition.

mmm wrote:Will I be able to survive without Eric's thermometer for a while?

mmm wrote:I've also been reading up on how to do a cooling flush today; it doesn't seem too hard.

It does not sound too hard, but depends on your own awareness of the variables in the equation, your patience and ability to patiently stick to some formula.
I have a similar HX machine (QM Andreja Premium) and did without the thermometer in the group, but developing a feeling without instrument feedback is a slow process. To get Olympic precision, the gymnasts must rehearse an exercise 10,000 times before they get at the precision desired.
Since you are probably starting a learning process where you develop your ability to discern coffees/shots you prefer over ones you like less, in the beginning you may be less discerning and feel less in need of instruments (thermometer, timer).
You can probably speed up the learning process by just buying half a dozen pounds of the same coffee and start exploring the optimization space. Too cold, warmer, too hot. Change pressure. Change grind. Change dose (with headroom and grinder setting!) Visually judge, smell, take a small sip, let it sit to record crema persistence, and do the next one. Play with back-to-back series versus ones that are spaced well in time and see what the optimum distance in time is.

So, as you are on the quest for the holy coffee shot in a multidimensional search space, you want to have control over as many variables as possible.
Some coffee roasts are more "forgiving" than others: select one coffee that will serve you for a long time, stick to it. You even want to develop an idea of how to adjust the grinder during the aging of the beans in the hopper (I now find a very small daily coarser adjustment is required). Develop a notion of how fresh the coffee is initially. Very fresh, the coffee has more gases and the trickle is fluffier (thicker), so you do not want to tighten the grinder until you get the extreme "mouse tail". Search for the grind/temperature that gives the best "tiger skin" (with darker reddish spots on the tan crema surface).

If you are thinking now I am rather finicky in taste and may have been a bit sloppy in process - you might have a point.
You may feel you can cover up some faults with the milk, but will discover in time that you have become discerning here as well.

mmm wrote:Right now for accessories to buy I have: frothing pitcher, frothing thermometer, Bumper tamper, knockbox...

Frothing thermometer - not sure you need that, but consider a digital cooking thermometer that can measure the temperature of water/coffee in the PF spout. As I don't do milk drinks, somebody might learn me the large dial classic thermometer is better, though. And, yes, I am aware the frothing thermometer can measure temperature in the PF spout as well - I just doubt its repeatability and preciseness required there.
The Motta aluminium 58 is a bit cheaper than the Bumper, and, I would consider the Bumper tamper stand/base - one of the best add-ons I bought.
If you want to take another variable out, consider the ESPRO tamper - it helps you tamp at the same pressure each time, yet more expensive.
Knock box - make sure it is dishwasher proof. I prefer that, and volume, over looks, but I put the knock box in the drawer of the trolley my espresso machine is on.
A coffee scoop is probably with the machine, but if not, a dosing spoon (the volume of about 7 grams of coffee beans) really helps.
Think shot glass so you can see what is happening during the shot.
Think digital scales, as these are more precise than the 7 grams scoop (I bought a very cheap kitchen model with 0.1 gram repeatability, however 1 gram readout - when you add one bean and the scale moves to, say, 14 gram, you actually went over the 13.45~13.55 gram threshold. I start with two scoops and updose with a few beans at a time). Remember there is a debate as to the relevance of weight over volume, or v.v.

Have fun with good coffee. Less good shots will generally be better than the best ones you have away from home, except for a few professional serious espresso outlets. And, as you become more experienced, after some time you may think it is actually more difficult than you thought in the beginning.
Maybe Chris Coffee would be prepared, BTW, to unpack your machine, test it, and adjust pump and boiler pressure to their commercial optimum. I found my machine out of the factory was set at too high a pump pressure and the boiler was slightly too hot (=pressure). To me, today, that would be an essential part of my negotiations over price. And stick to those machine settings for a long time.

regards
Peter

I thought I would join in and say a few things about the Expobar. It is a very good machine and here are some links to reviews

https://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/comm ... baroffice/

https://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/cons ... /janwillem

http://www.coffeeforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=7254

It is a very good machine for the money. We also are the exclusive internet retailer for the Expobar line and that may be the main reason some other companies are not selling it. I prefer to say look at at all the machines that everyone sells and compare them using user reviews as a good way to see what machine best meets your needs and budget. There are a lot of good machines out there and we are proud to carry the Expobar line and have been very pleased with its performance.

I've been very happy with my used Anita. Looks good, quality build, easy to take apart if you need to. PLENTY of advice available from fellow owners on the forum. Very heavy duty shell and body. With some learning on your part will pull a great shot.

Accessories I use often:
Good grinder, digital timer, bottomless portafilter, chop stick, Espro click tamper, Espro Toroid frothing pitcher, Cafiza cleaning powder for backflushing. The same cups everytime, I like the monkey cups from Sweet Marias.

Digital scale for dosing was used while I attempted to not shoot espresso all over the place.
While getting used to the machine I used a thermometer for steaming. My hand works pretty darn well now that I know what I'm doing. OSH has a nice 4 oz measuring cup for a couple of bucks, has oz, tbsp measurements on it.

Mark

Forget the Espro tamper. Even distribution and level tamp are infinitely more important than pressure. The equivalent DoReMi in coffee will pay bigger dividends.