Let me clarify why I was asking about the doserless vs. doser grinder.

Most doserless grinders I've used clump a lot, but not all. The value-priced Le'Lit PL53, for example, is nearly clumpless. It is rather loud, retains a good 2-3 grams of coffee, and the adjustment mechanism is fine-tuned for espresso. I owned the Rocky doserless and spent a lot of time thwacking the sides trying to eject the grounds it invariably held back (joking at the time that it's called "Rocky" for a reason). Ian reports good results with his Macap MC4 grinding one shot at a time. I used it with a full hopper and successive shots; the snout held back a sizeable wad of coffee and the ground coffee was replete with boulders. The electronic version of the same grinder wasn't better in this respect:


Macap M4 Electronic Doserless vs. Mazzer Mini E Espresso Grinder

Early reports of the Baratza Vario are promising. Between it and the already proven PL53, I'm hopeful that manufacturers will finally shore up the long-known shortcomings of some doserless grinders. In the meantime it's worth investigating the strengths and weaknesses of the doserless grinders on your shortlist since their performance may vary more dramatically than the doser-equipped models in the same class.

HB wrote: Ian reports good results with his Macap MC4 grinding one shot at a time. I used it with a full hopper and successive shots; the snout held back a sizeable wad of coffee and the ground coffee was replete with boulders.

Correction :

• - hopper always contains ~250g
  - snout cleared of stuck coffee at end of shot
  - always grind ~2g stale coffee into the bin before next shot

In nearly 3 years with this grinder, I've never seen anything remotely close the picture above.

Actually the MC4 that I used produced even worse boulders than pictured above, but I didn't clear the snout after every shot (using what, a chopstick?). The particulars of your grinder aside for a moment, I think that I've made my point: Doserless and doser grinders may need attending to, some more than others. Buyers should not assume doserless = no fuss, no muss. Based on the early reports, the Baratza Vario could be a doserless grinder admirer's dream machine.

HB wrote:Based on the early reports, the Baratza Vario could be a doserless grinder admirer's dream machine.

Boy, do I hope this turns out to be true.

Mark

HB wrote:I didn't clear the snout after every shot (using what, a chopstick?).

MC4 snout clearing tool to the right of the scale



Espresso is a dirty business. If you do it long enough, you'll come across all kinds of harebrained dogma. The most under used word on-line is "may." The sad state of affairs is I can test a $50,000 car or $1,000 tv but not a $500 grinder. Which is why anyone is always free to PM and arrange to come and try whatever I've got.

HB wrote:.... Based on the early reports, the Baratza Vario could be a doserless grinder admirer's dream machine.

I have used the Baratza Virtuoso grinder and had two complaints- the first was the coarse adjustment steps and difficulty to fine tune it for espresso, and the second being the static problem. From what I saw from the Vario earlier this year, the adjustment problem has been dealt with quite well. If they have limited the static problem I think it will be a winner, if for no other reason than it will be a very small footprint grinder capable of doing espresso without difficulty. I hope to be able to review one....

Randy G. wrote:Partial: From what I saw from the Vario earlier this year, the adjustment problem has been dealt with quite well. If they have limited the static problem I think it will be a winner, if for no other reason than it will be a very small footprint grinder capable of doing espresso without difficulty. I hope to be able to review one....

I have a Vario on order from Espresso Parts... So when they do receive them and ship I will be testing. There is also "ddr" (Dan Roscigno) who has ordered one and plans on doing a review.

I as well. Should be arriving end of December, early January, as Baratza was working on a static issue, I believe.

The equipment sponsors get the bounty of exposure thanks to the site reviews, research from the Bench forum, etc. One of the goals for HB in 2009 is to bring more of the great coffee roasters that sponsor HB into the limelight. The MVP Espresso Blend sponsored by Paradise Roasters is one example, and now Jeff Taylor of PT's Coffee has agreed to sponsor the evaluation of the Baratza Vario.

The form of the evaluation is still under development, but I look forward to reading the early comments from the gentlemen above and contributing our own. Thanks Jeff for the quick reply!

That's great! I can save my money a bit longer!
Merry Christmas to all.